Science Ministry's recommendations leaked! Scandal! Government rocked!

[Ljube]

I didn't take into consideration possible courthouse.

If there is a courthouse in Hannover the cost would rise to 14443.

I don't see how destrioying anything but courthouse, if there is one there, could possibly influence the price of Hannover.

Even though the cost in turns is comparable, I think bribing it is a better option than taking it by force for three reasons.

1) We get to keep the infrastructure intact.
2) We get to keep the troops inside.
3) Our troops and diplos are too far away to be able to mount a serious campaign. So bribing is faster.

[atawa]

I didnt calculate the cost of Bribing Hannover as the people voted overwhelmingly for this plan.

But we can just as easily do the job with about 15 engineers, 10 vet attackers and 6-8 dips.
Seeing bribing would cost 9000 gold we could just as well use the money to buy those units and more.

I do still support the quick capture of Hannover, not only does it give us the chance to go for Commie (With our unitcount it doesnt realy matter in production but when celebrating our techrate will skyrocket )

Another benifit is that once Germans fall out of Fundi they can never go back

[Ljube]

If we decide to bribe Hannover, we are 5 turns away from communism.

If not, we are around 18 turns away from communism.

I say bribe Hannover, switch to communism, switch to canon, research espionage and Machine Tools and kill them all.

[atawa]

Bribe or conquer the city,but take it asap I say

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

I favour capture, as opposed to bribing. 9000 g would buy a lot of attackers. Yes, the troops are far away... but it will also take a few more turns to collect 9000 g. That's assuming 9000 g is the price. If it's more... then military action is that much more economical.

[cavebear]

9000 G is far too high a price for merely 1 among many cities. In light of this information, the question of Hannover should be re-opened.

[Ljube]

Hannover is not merely 1 among many cities. The bribery of Hannover will speed up our research drastically.

We have no need of money since all our enemies are democracies, so don't be deterred by the high price.

Bribe Hannover!

And there is no choice actually, because the citizens have already decided to bribe it.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by ljcvetko

Bribe Hannover!

And there is no choice actually, because the citizens have already decided to bribe it.

Well, yes. Except that the citizens didn't know how much it would cost. If it were 2000 g, I'd be in favour of bribing it, too. I was expecting something in the area of 1000-4000 g.

Given that there has been a lot of opposition to the bribe plan in various threads (now that the cost estimate is in ), I think the issue should be revisited.

[atawa]

I'm sure our president will make the right decission

[Ben Kenobi]

Here's the deal, sparrowhawk wants more time to complete the very important cityplanner report.

Once I get that report, I can start the turn.

As for those clamouring for a communist government, we just got Mikes chapel under a Fundamentalist government earning us a huge amount of cash each turn. A Communist government would likely be cash strapped, or at the very least, much less of a surplus than we currently enjoy.

[Ljube]

Maybe I should have kept my nice, cosy city planner position instead of trying hard for this one. That one is a straightforward job. Even if you have some disagreement with your president, it's always minor disagreement. No high profile policy issues like here.

I think we should poll if we want to become communists.
The money won't be the problem and science will be excellent. We can always switch back to fundamentalism once we discover all military techs we need (machine tools and espionage).

But I would rather stay in communism for three reasons:

1) Engineers eat one food = We can support more engineers per city
2) Max distance is 10 = No bribery of our cities or troops (expensive)
3) Spies are veterans

And we can do the same job with smaller army and more engineers and spies.

[Ben Kenobi]

ljcvetko:

1. Settlers eat 2 food under communism.
2. We are already difficult to bribe. Communism will not substantially increase our resistance to counter-bribery.
3. Spies are vets.

I can only see three as a valid reason to switch, something I don't see making up for the lack of cash from Mike's Chapel.

Oh, and the civilopedia is wrong about settlers eating 1 food under communism. Try it yourself.

[Ljube]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
ljcvetko:

1. Settlers eat 2 food under communism.

Oh, and the civilopedia is wrong about settlers eating 1 food under communism. Try it yourself.

I have just checked one of my saves where I'm communist and yes, settlers eat two food.

I have never paid much attention to it in my MP games; it has been a while since I have played a single player game, so I simply read civilopedia and produced an error. Communism doesn't seem that appealing to me any more. You could have told me this earlier.

[Ben Kenobi]

Eh, I'm just a Jedi, not a mindreader.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Communism or Fundamentalism, it doesn't really matter much, we'll win either way.

How we'll win is the issue. If we plan to stay in Fundy, we might as well keep science at 0. By the time we learn Machine Tools in Fundy, we probably won't have need for Artillery. If we're staying in Fundy, all we need to do is keep building units in masses and steamroll the opponent. Messy, but effective.

(Incremental rushbuying is easier in Fundy because of the Fanatic. If a city produces at least one net shield per turn, we can have a new Cavalry in that city every 2 turns at the cost of <160 g. (rushbuying costs 60 g for the Fanatic, and then 25 g per additional row of shields, up to 60). With our 1500/turn surplus, we could have 9-10 new Cavalry per turn. If we tried to get Artillery while in Fundy, it would take 30 turns of research, if we're lucky. The 300 or so Cavalry we could build in that timeframe would win easily.)

If we move to Communism, we can be much more efficient (Spies are vastly more efficient than Diplomats, and Artillery have more than double the hitting power of Cannon (Att 10 fp 2 vs Att 8 fp 1). Artillery should take out Riflemen behind walls at about a 1:1 ratio. We can win stylishly. We won't run out of cash doing it, either.

As a citizen, I just want to see decisions made based on all available information, and I hate to see waste. A high science rate in Fundy for prolonged periods is a waste. And 9000 g on one city is a waste.

So if we want Hannover, we should try to put it into disorder to bribe it as cheaply as possible, or take it by force. And if we want to shoot for Machine Tools, we should do it in Communism, not Fundy.