What do YOU want in SMAC2

[Paul Vella]

quote: Originally posted by Jokka das Trevas on 04-03-2001 08:24 PM I dunno if someone agree with me, but I think that probe teams shouldn't expose it's factions either on success or failure(even if lost). That spoils the "covert ops" part of the game, since they're not covert(you're exposed when your probe team is lost) I mean, enemies can see your probe team but can't tell it's YOUR probe team, unless they capture it with a combat unit or another probe team(THEN you should be exposed, because the enemy DID made something to discover who was). But when you stealthly approaches the enemy city and he can't see you until it's too late(i.e: the probe team attacked), he shouldn't be "rewarded" by my exposure if he didn't took any preventive measures to keep my probe teams off, even if the team fail... I mean this because when you try to take advantage of the Data Angels traits of probing, if you afford to land your probe unit in a enemy city, if you do anything else than infiltrating you risk being exposed and bring war to yourself(talking about single player transcend levels here). Sure, I agree that biological contamination should expose the faction who did it, but other than that I don't think it's either realistic nor fair. What do you think of it? After all, the means you have of protecting yourself from probe teams are many, it is just fair that your faction don't get exposed that easily and for free.

Yes, I agree with this. Probe teams need to be alot better cause we know who a probe team belongs to when we see them and we can attack the emeny before they even have stolen anything! And one other thing:

LONG LIVE THE SPARTANS!

[Paul Vella]

quote: Originally posted by Cybergod on 04-05-2001 03:25 PM Now Paul, your ideas are excellent aswell but I do not quite find it plausible that the world governments, that were on a breach of a total catastrophe, would risk 'wasting' money onto sending another space ship to AC. Maybe they would but, by judging from today's model governments of the future, they probably would try to save themselves to a more cheaper soultion, Mars perhaps? Just a thought... [This message has been edited by Cybergod (edited April 05, 2001).]

Hang on, lets say that the Earth is so polluted that life cannot exist on it, which is why the UNS Unity was sent, to find a new homeworld for humanity. Ok? Now, not all the humans would go some would stay behind and build an International Space Station in secrery from Governments cause there all at war with each other. The UN then send as many people as they can on board before humanity is wiped out. Then no life can exist on Earth cause of pollution but people are still around the planet on the ISS. Then your bits come in, the aliens (the Zo'or as you called them) have planted experiments around the galaxy and Earth was one of them and then, all your story follows on, and the people on board the ISS need to find somewhere else cause of the aliens, I dunno yet.
If Mars was the easy option, why didn't the Unity go there? We know that the Mars has a temperature range of something like 242 C to -132 C in various areas, and Earth has 55 C to -40 something C. Humans on Mars would either cook or freeze like ice cubes on Mars but on Chiron, which is the next nearest habitable planet, the temperatures are ok. So that's why Mars is out-of-the-question.
And I also thought of a wacky idea. Those robots you mentioned? What if they spring up in-way through the game as a result of AI rebellion of human use of tech? They would be an unplayable faction, but it would put a twist in the mist!

[Paul Vella]

quote: Originally posted by Jokka das Trevas on 04-05-2001 10:05 AM You got me wrong, Paul Humanity in Earth is destroyed maybe(didn't read the book), but not Earth itself. I insist that you read that prelude file. I've never seen that prelude I'm speaking about in the game, guess this is when you lose transcending...

Now that I agree with! Nuclear warfare has poluted the planet so bad that life cannot exist. Instead, the Earth is still there but humans live around the planet on an International Space Station (which was what I was saying).

[Cybergod]

Guys, you're fighing over thing like are WE all dead on Earth! Might I remind you that nothing is final here, yet, and that everything could be mix 'n' matched . Now Paul, your ideas are excellent aswell but I do not quite find it plausible that the world governments, that were on a breach of a total catastrophe, would risk 'wasting' money onto sending another space ship to AC. Maybe they would but, by judging from today's model governments of the future, they probably would try to save themselves to a more cheaper soultion, Mars perhaps? Just a thought...

Anyways, you asked me about faction names, maybe following, if you want my storyline, if not they need modification:

The Seed of Unity (humans from AC)
UNDECIDED NAME (robots)
UNDECIDED NAME (terran mutants/new intelligent lifeforms)
UNDECIDED NAME (terran humans)
UNDECIDED NAME (terran humans)
The Usurper Empire (progenitors)
United Tribes of Zo’or (alien creatures similar to insects)

Maybe "The Epsilon Matrix" for robots? Or a name like "Laila Yasmine" for the leader of the Seed?

Edit: Anoying mestakes...
[This message has been edited by Cybergod (edited April 05, 2001).]

[Jokka das Trevas]

You got me wrong, Paul

Humanity in Earth is destroyed maybe(didn't read the book), but not Earth itself.

I insist that you read that prelude file. I've never seen that prelude I'm speaking about in the game, guess this is when you lose transcending...

[BillyM]

Originally posted by Blake on 03-26-2001 04:34 PM
Unfortunately AI's fail to understand there is a tommorow.

Nope, a well designed AI can plan for several rounds using something as simple as a binary search algorithm. (Going for depth first searches if time is limited, width first if a better solution is wanted.) Most chess AI:s do this.

Hehe. Not possible. Don't make this a thesis until you can compute the orders of magnitude difference involved between a simple game with 6 "units", a very small board, simple deterministic exchange & movement rules, complete enemy disposition information and trivial position evaluation versus the SMAC universe.

Forget about strengthening the AI, it's not going to happen, no matter how many magic wands you wave and say 'Make it so'. The problem is far too complex, so play the really tough AI, your fellow humans. Available NOW.

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Put in some DECENT Multiplayer support, add 'master server' features.

Add the ability to have the AI (as crappy as it is) take over a human's faction when they drop out. Allow an incoming human to take over an AI's faction. Add passwords to control such exchanges when necessary.

Doing those 4 simple things would allow for 'floating games'. SMAC takes hours to play on a large map, so make it easy to allow people to join/leave such long games. Consider creating a faction team to play other faction teams in the same game, i.e. all the Morgan lovers can team up and play various shifts around the clock (probably get even more energy credits too) against the Yang teams, etc. The Builders vs the Warmongers, The Nomad Challenge game,...the variations are endless, as people are very adaptive.

[Paul Vella]

And anyway, who are we gonna send our ideas to? I've checked out the Fixias website but there's no e-mail's or anything. I know they ain't gonna ask us for our opinions but there should be an address aat least...

[Paul Vella]

Are you sure, cause there's alotta die-hard fans out there who believe the Earth was destroyed. Anyway, why did the UNS Unity leave then? There's a novel Centauri Dawn, you should read it, it's by some guy who was a writer of the game I think, everyone's hooked on it.
Anyway, what ideas do you have?

[Jokka das Trevas]

Sorry Paul, Earth is not destroyed

Just see the file "interlude.txt"(or something like that) in SMAC's directory and see one of the interludes...


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Long live THE HIVE!

[Paul Vella]

hhhhmmmmmmmm, I like your idea alot (esp the evloution of the humans) but I must tell you that the Earth was completely destroyed. No life can grow there. But your ideas could be mixed with mine. You see, because a second voyage to Alpha Centauri is made, the original faction leaders will not know much of the modern Earth history and that could be incorpraited as a secret project or technology that they discover and they realise just how much of a threat the aliens are as they tried to attack or colonise Earth
for themselves???????????
Seriously, I think that your ideas are actually great, though I think that the game needs way more terraforming. We need to build more things and I find that everything built is all for warfare, perhaps we could build things other than troops and tanks and aircrafts?
Ummmm have you given any thought to the names of your new factions? I've got some but I'd like to hear your ideas to.
Good luck with your ideas!

P.S You never did tell me what you thought of my ideas?

[Cybergod]

quote: Originally posted by Paul Vella on 04-04-2001 02:01 AM I've been thinking about this recently and I've found that the U.N.S Unity was suppose to reply back to the United Nations after it colonised Alpha Centauri. Therefore humans still existed on or around Earth. What if the Earth is a wasteland and that humanity still exists on board the International Space Station where a second voyager dubbed U.N.S Humanity will be dispatched to Alpha Centauri? After all humans back near Earth wouldn't know about the death of Captain Garland and that their was a spilt in the group causing seven factions. So they would assume that the U.N.S Unity was completely destroyed or got lost. Either way, they think it failed. A second voyage to Alpha Centauri would see them there to find out what happened to U.N.S Untiy and coloinize the planet at all costs. In my view, the second voyage would also nead a drastic stiuation to cause the group to spilt into another seven factions. However, when they arrive on Alpha Centauri, they find the other factions from Alpha Centauri AND Alien Crossfire still existing. They send a reply to the International Space Station which uses new technology to make it go faster then the speed of light (but still take years to reach there). Anyway, I think that by the end of SMAC-2 perhaps they could put in a colony pod from the International Space Station with the remained of the humans in it. Signifying Humanity's new home Alpha Centauri. Anyone who wishes to discuss this with me can at pjcvella@searchmalta.com

Paul, got your email .

For the answer to yuor questions PLEASE read my previous posts on page one aswell!!! (not shouting just stressing the importance)

[Paul Vella]

I've been thinking about this recently and I've found that the U.N.S Unity was suppose to reply back to the United Nations after it colonised Alpha Centauri. Therefore humans still existed on or around Earth. What if the Earth is a wasteland and that humanity still exists on board the International Space Station where a second voyager dubbed U.N.S Humanity will be dispatched to Alpha Centauri? After all humans back near Earth wouldn't know about the death of Captain Garland and that their was a spilt in the group causing seven factions. So they would assume that the U.N.S Unity was completely destroyed or got lost. Either way, they think it failed. A second voyage to Alpha Centauri would see them there to find out what happened to U.N.S Untiy and coloinize the planet at all costs.
In my view, the second voyage would also nead a drastic stiuation to cause the group to spilt into another seven factions. However, when they arrive on Alpha Centauri, they find the other factions from Alpha Centauri AND Alien Crossfire still existing. They send a reply to the International Space Station which uses new technology to make it go faster then the speed of light (but still take years to reach there). Anyway, I think that by the end of SMAC-2 perhaps they could put in a colony pod from the International Space Station with the remained of the humans in it. Signifying Humanity's new home Alpha Centauri. Anyone who wishes to discuss this with me can at pjcvella@searchmalta.com

[Jokka das Trevas]

Oh, I forgot saying this:

1) Different plots and endings Seeing that the transcend finale for the Usurpers is completely EQUAL to transcending human is frustrating. Hell, weren't that guys bent on conquering the universe? What was my disappointment when I saw that the game didn't showed me how the f**k the Usurpers would use planet for belic purposes!

And also: sister Mirian would think(at least in the beggining) that the voice of planet would be the devil or a false god and would repel it. Deirdre would chit-chat more with the voice and so on.

2) Removal of random battles and moves Random events is one thing, but random EVERYTHING is ridiculous. I mean, it's ridiculous that my one-move unit try 7 times to cross a single fungus square but don't make it because the damn idiot game engine decided that it should be random. Same thing for random encounters, such as fungus(yes, it's random. If you encounter a worm in a fungus patch and reload game and go again most probably the worm won't be back). This shoudn't be random, the worm should appear(remain hidden if in fungus), but not random. Why?

Because if you move through a large patch of fungus, in random encounters you can have bad luck and encounter up to 5 worms(one at a time, in a random encounter). If the worm REALLY exists and it's not random, you'll find 2 of them at most.

Luck is a welcome part in strategy game, but many strategic affairs shouldn't be decided solely on luck - if so you don't need strategy at all, yeah? :P

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Long live THE HIVE!

[Jokka das Trevas]

I dunno if someone agree with me, but I think that probe teams shouldn't expose it's factions either on success or failure(even if lost). That spoils the "covert ops" part of the game, since they're not covert(you're exposed when your probe team is lost)

I mean, enemies can see your probe team but can't tell it's YOUR probe team, unless they capture it with a combat unit or another probe team(THEN you should be exposed, because the enemy DID made something to discover who was).

But when you stealthly approaches the enemy city and he can't see you until it's too late(i.e: the probe team attacked), he shouldn't be "rewarded" by my exposure if he didn't took any preventive measures to keep my probe teams off, even if the team fail...

I mean this because when you try to take advantage of the Data Angels traits of probing, if you afford to land your probe unit in a enemy city, if you do anything else than infiltrating you risk being exposed and bring war to yourself(talking about single player transcend levels here).

Sure, I agree that biological contamination should expose the faction who did it, but other than that I don't think it's either realistic nor fair.

What do you think of it? After all, the means you have of protecting yourself from probe teams are many, it is just fair that your faction don't get exposed that easily and for free.

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Long live THE HIVE!

[Cybergod]

Why are all of my posts messed up? For example when I wrote the number '2' it showed the word 'two'.