What do YOU want in SMAC2

[Blake]

Fish thing: Would be more plausable to say that a high tech country or even rich business people decided to build some undersea colonies to escape the inevitable surface war.

While undersea they developed gene splicing techniques to be able to breathe water directley, and modified the body to withstand water pressure. As they altered their bodies to be perfectley adapted to undersea life they lost the ability to live in dry air (for example undersea people wouldn't need to sweat). Anyway this was all find and dandy until one day the people on the surface realised the undersea people had things pretty good, and they didn't. So the terrans destroyed and looted all of the undersea bases. The aqua people survived by fleeing, and started living like fish. Ofcourse when the bases got destroyed most of the technology was lost, and besides the Aqua people no longer needed technology to live undersea.

I think that the native human factions should have somewhat higher populations, (ie rather than 10,000 every base size is worth 50,000 people). The more advanced factions have much smaller populations (because they arrived by spaceship), and instead rely heavily on technology to supplement the workforce. For them this makes IndAuto a crucial technology for raising certain resource restrictions, while the more populus factions don't require Ind Auto to have the restrictions lifted, because they have enough bodies to send out to work the fields or mines.

In the continuing war against ICS an idea would be to have military units require population to build, and food to support. This would mean departing from the 2 nuts per city size, and having fractional amounts. Large well developed bases with good terraforming would be able to easily afford the population and food to support the troops, while crummy little bases wouldn't. The result of this would be factions being able to cheaply support a # of units proportional to the faction population, rather than # of bases.

[knowhow2]

quote: Originally posted by Cybergod on 03-29-2001 12:38 PM Also a new intelligent lifeform has, as is believed, artificially developed. Neither human side has taken the responsibility of creating it. The new species is a type of fish, similar to both dolphins and humans. It is thought that they are a hybrid of the two. The species live in water but can also survive for a period of time on land. A theory suggests that if they wanted, through tough training, they could survive on land for months even. Their communication is dolphin-like, but humans have not yet entirely understood their ’speech’. More study is necessary. ..

Just being curious about this "new species". How do you get a fish out of two mammal?

[Fantasmo]

How do you come up with this stuff? It's amazing!
There are some terraforming things that could (should actually ). You SHOULD be able to build airbases on water I mean c'mon you can drill through the crust of the planet but you can't build landing pads on the water! You should be able to build "sonar buoys" which act as sensor arrays on water. Oil derricks/drills (can only be built over certain spots where there is an "oil marker" though) which provide massive energy benefits for that square but there is great pollution and nothing else can be built in that square. You should also be able to build "repair stations" over the map so that before you get 'Nano Factory' you can actually repair quickly away from base.
Something cool would be "Mutant Hordes" a la Mad Max, they have small camps where they are 'built' and they then roam about attacking anyone they please. The camps will randomly generate new warriors but they cannot research technology, design new units, terraform or use diplomacy. You should actually FEAR them because of their massive attacks that can wipe out several bases before being stopped. If you capture their camps you should get a monetary bonus because of recovering their 'loot'.

Sorry about the length

[Blake]

Terraforming should be more tech dependant as well, and faction dependent.

So if Earth has been ravaged by centuries of war it's surface is probably poorly developed, with low producing farms, damaging strip mines, wasteland and some forest near the poles. The aliens and Centurai's should have automatic terraforming technology, with say the ability to build:
Farms, Mines
Humans can't terraform at the start, but already have some existing terraforming.

Condensor's would come with a tech like "Weather Control", or when the WP SP is built.
With Industrial Automation all mines could produce +1 Minerals, "natives" get this bonus automatically from the greater local workforce. Crawlers could suffer a -1 Penalty in the resource collected, or have an energy upkeep (or both).
Borehole's come with something like Advanced Industrial Automation. Also at about the same tech small space elevators could be built.
Various Fungal, forest, kelp strains should come with techs like "Centurai Ecology" (actually have this technology - what was learn't on AC could help on Earth), Ecological Engineering, plant genetics, gene splicing, Adv Ecological Engineering etc.

Having several types of forest/fungus could be interesting. For example one type might produce lots of food and improve the soil under it. Another type is high mineral, thrives in pollution and spreads like crazy. So much that it starts overrunning other varieties. A weed variety with low production which acts like a barrier to enemy incursions, and incurs no defense bonus. Also offensive terraforming - devestation weed, which spreads fast, destroys other terrain improvments and leaves wasteland when cleared. Other varities can mutate into it from excessive pollution.

[Cybergod]

Damnit! Another double post! Why is this happening?!

Sorry for forgeting yor name Blake .

I was thinking also about a newfeature in the game: Space Exploration/Combat. This would probably include building spaceships and space colonies on other planets, maybe also asteroid mining stations. There should be a special tech for special weapons/shields/models of chassises/spec reactors for the space ships, with its own design screen (so that the user can design it). What about a stealth ability on a space ship? Nah, getting too Star Trekkie (stopped watching that LONG time ago for some odd reason, now glued to here or MTV). The space colonies wouldn't be able to grow on their own but you will need to build them directly from Earth. The problem of drone riots in space is settled by simply NOT letting the drones actually travel there, only Workers and Talents (the ones born there will be reassigned on Earth). Of course, a space based spy (probe team) could still bribe the colony to go under enemy rule. You will need a higher tech to build these (Adv Space FLight?) than satellites. They take longer to build that them but cannot be destroyed by Orb Def Pods and satellites are eaier to destroy with space ships than these lot. Plus the further away the colony, the longer the ship needs to reach it. You may choose to dock a space ship in them but not repair them unless it's a Ship Repair Station. Different types of colonies:

* Recreation Colony - doesn't do anything, but takes away 1 citizen from a base that builds it and sends it to the planet/moon. A bit like a Colony Pod. If your/enemy faction gets eliminated, if you have these, you/them will still live and you/enemy will have to Colony Combat, see below. Fortunately/Unfortunately, these settlements don't grow.

* Mining Colony - provides you with some extra minerals get destroyed with your/other-about-to-be-eliminated faction.

* Plantation Colony - nutrient bonus, same as above

* Energy Colony - guess what? An energy bonus + same as above

* Gas Depletion Colony (only on gas giants) - gives you a bigger energy bonus that above but much the same

* Ship Repair Station - not really a Colony but repairs damaged ships docked here.

* Enterprise Colony - offers a Holywood style experiences to other people in other factions, generates you a +1 energy from commerce, which increase/decreases with economically related techs.

* War Colony - gives your other colonies on the same planet a defence/offence bonus against enemy colonies and their attacks on the same planet.

Colony Combat would consist with two enemy faction colonies fighting each other, with one being there long with a larger bonus due to higher experience. Space ships docked in a defending colony add to the attack bonus as those in the defending colony (which give an offencive bonus). I was thinking of giving one of the terran factions, the industrialist one, a free lunar mining colony at start. The story behind them is that they are decendants of Moon colonists who escaped the chaos of Earth and have chosen a time to resettle it. The other faction stayed there through all the chaos and torments of the apocaliptic Earth.

Different species should have different name for different thing (like eg. humans call a facility Recreation Commons but natives call it Mutant Respiratories while zo'or call it Drone Grounds and robots don't have them at all). Maybe in an alpha.txt (or whatever) file it would look like this:

...
Recreation Commons, 1, Mutant Respiratories, 1, Drone Grounds, 1, Recreation Commons, 0 ...

ie. human name, do they build it? (1=yes, 0=no), mutant name, do they build it?, alien name, do they build it?, robot name, do they build it?...

More to come, please comment so far ...

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"I hate this storm. The others all pretend they're not afraid but I know better. They're as scared as I am, but they won't admit it. They look at me and smile and make brave faces and they can see how frightened I am. The wind howls out there and they all pretend they don't hear it. And when I turn my back to them, when they think I can't see them, they laugh at me. I can hear them laughing at me even over the noise of the wind."

Extract from
"Return to Mars"
by Ben Bova

[Cybergod]

Double post...
[This message has been edited by Cybergod (edited March 30, 2001).]

[Cybergod]

"Whoops! How could I not say 'participate'?!"

By the way, PLEASE IGNORE THE "See the ___ section" PARTS OF THE THING

The terraform suggestions of someone above (sorry pal, forgot the name ) are very good and could be added to this. The "clean" terraforms, such as wind-power, could be available after discoveing another terraform-related tech, since, in modern-day experience, we see that alternative energy tends to be more expencive (in this case needed higher tech).

Of course, if the user wanted to, in scen editor or even maybe in a game option, he could make the planed be NOT Earth.

Just to nitpick, it's "participate" in Terran Council.

Not bad, Cybergod. Very creative. Just make sure the aliens aren't as overpowered as they are in smax.

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Money is the key to end all your woes
Your ups and your downs, your highs and your lows
Won't you tell me last time that love bought you clothes?
It's like that, and that's the way it is

[Closey]

quote: Sorry, more terraforming

Here's some more ideas for that list..

Blackening the poles so they'll heat faster, and thus melt faster.

And different kinds of tented/domed villages/cities. Maybe using different parts of the landscape as better sites for domes/tents. Like craters and valleys.

And if all this took place on the moons of a gas giant, why not some cloud scoops retrieving He3 and such.

And if not moons, how about habitats as in Arthur C Clarke's Rama books and Peter F Hamilton's Night's Dawn books? Sure, not as much terraforming, but it could still make an interesting game.

Maybe this wouldn't be SMAC anymore, but it should be able to become a very good game tho.

[Blake]

Sorry, more terraforming

Space Mirrors! Build big mirrors in orbit and reflect light onto the planet, increasing temperature and light levels, and increasing daylight hours near the poles. And ( ) have a big solar lense, in a low orbit, which focuses light on a small patch of ground, burning a massive trench in the ground as it passes over. Kinda like an orbital deathray.

Windmills would be an interesting prospect for energy generation. The current terraforming want (wish) list!

Food:
Farm
Hydroponics Lab (Good food output, clean, incurs energy cost for upkeep)
Sea farm


Energy:
Solar
Geothermal
Hyrdo
Windmill
Tidal harnass

Production:
Mine (clean)
Strip Mine (destructive version, eliminates food production in tile)
Gas Factory (Average mineral boost, high global warming rating)

Misc:
Thermal Borehole (Energy / Mineral / Global Warming, river flowing in makes steam = rain, kills most nearby life)
Thermocline Borehole (Sea version, creates lots of steam = rain, kills most life in nearby tiles)
Condensor: Encourages rainfall in the area, causes areas downwind to dry out, overuse may deplete atmosphere of water vapour = bad.

Biological/Nanotechnological:
Whatever is cooked up in the labs, can dynamically evolve in enviroment, may produce dramatically different resources in different areas. Species may die out as the planet is terraformed.

Grand Scale Terraforming:
Icey Comet: Increase global atmosphere density, water content
Astroid: Slam into planet to increase atmosphere density, very deadly to life.
Solar Shade: Cools planet
Solar Mirror: Heats planet, increases light = promotes plant growth.
Orbital Power Generator: Produces energy, split between bases with Microwave receivers. Can also be used as a death ray.
Orbital Manafacturing Plant: Boosts production

An idea for a play arena is a gas giant with many moons, moon hopping would be quite easy, allowing one moon to invade another. With large moons terraforming options would be just as varied as for planets.

Multiplayer, Brighter colors, and better AI.

Cybergod,

What are your ideas?

[Fantasmo]

I think it would be cool to be on the Progenitor "homeworld" and Planet before the so-called "Tau-Ceti flowering".
This would allow you to do ALOT more terraforming. Why you ask? You would be laying down monoliths , creating the fungus (in labs maybe?) and breeding life forms to populate Planet. But you cannot discount warfare and diplomacy, can you? You may build Battle Ogres, fight against whatever caused the "Tau-Ceti flowering" maybe go through the earlystages of the Progenitor civil war, meet other spacefaring races (???) and of course lots of space-travel .
Otherwise (if they don't do a prequel) your ideas are really good and I would have never have thought of some of them .

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If practice makes perfect and nobody's perfect why practice?

[Closey]

quote: Not a chance! Erm, I mean yes Atleast twice

Ah.. heh.. how about the option of building small windmills that create a little heat then? Scattering them all over your territory?

Edt: spelling
[This message has been edited by Closey (edited March 28, 2001).]

[Closey]

Yeah, a good terraforming game.. I wouldn't mind buying that at all. Guess that's another reason why I enjoy playing SMAC/X. Sometimes I just wish that the other factions would leave me alone so I could tend to my bases without having to care for troups and such. Well, most of the time actually. Me, a builder? Noo..

Looking forward to seeing what Maxis/EA manage to do with Sim Mars. (Have to admit that I've read those books my KSR too.. ) Would be cool if they manage to make a good game out of it.