SCENARIO: Modern World (In Progress! Nitpickers needed!)

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by HatchetMan

How about a paranoia-weapon, like that one Mr. Bush has been exposed of? After being attacked with it, you lose all human IQ and randomly attacks (or wants to attack...) everyone you see! Yeah, that's it!

But you shouldn't use it on someone able to build the Manhattan excluding project, which prevents any other player from using (or even possessing) mass-destruction weapons!!

Hilarious.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
Regular 100x100:
EU
US
England
Arabs
Middle Saharans
South Africans
Persian states
India
Southeast Asia
China
Russia
Japan
Mexico
Andeans
MercoSur

In PTW version Iran and Pakistan will be separated, and South America might be further split up.

Hmmm, a good lineup. Might I suggest the division of Africa into three blocs, though?

Islamic Africa
Christian Africa, Bloc 1
Christian Africa, Bloc 2

these two blocs would be set up around the Congo War, which is commonly referred to as "Africa's First World War".

In terms of dividing up Latin/South America, how about:

MercoSur
Leftist Bloc

as here too, the andean countries cannot be quite exactly lumped together.

And what about the middle asian countries? Kazahkstan, Uzbekistan, etc.

Is Australia to be linked with Britain? What about Canada and Israel?

...just stuff to think about. Keep up the good work!

[Jaguar]

Auzzland, Canada, and Britain are together for civ3 versions. In PTW versions they're all separate. Israel will have a different role in each version:

100x100 for Civ3 - Nonexistent. (Damascus will be the only city in the area)
100x100 PTW - Alone, just Jerusalem (It will have heavy uber-bonuses and the Merkava kicks ass, so it should fare OK)
204x256 Civ3 - Just Jerusalem, paired with US
204x256 PTW - Jerusalem and Haifa, and it will govern itself.

The countries that sit between the Persian civ (Iran/Pakistan) and Russia will be divided between those two civs. Most will go to persia. Kazakhstan, I think, is the only exception.

Andean countries will have to live for 1.29 users. I only have room for 3 civs in Latin America. In PTW I can have 5, maybe more. (Brazil, Venezuela, Mexico, Argentina, Peru)

I think that Africa is best divided Islamic (Northern + Mogadishu and Mombasa) Central and Southern. Their relations are so complicated that you can't fit them together well into civs (even real countries have difficulties with that!) so we might as well just let them have nice continuous empires.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I agree with your grouping of Africa, but have a few small suggestions regarding South America:

Columbia and Peru should be together, perhaps with Chile, Argentina... Ecuador and Bolivia should be with Venezuela to reflect the current political trends there... and what about Central America and the Caribbean? All linger on under "democratic" governments, pro-Western, that are the spawn of dictatorships... they can all be lumped together (except Cuba) perhaps, but with whom? The US?

As for the Central Asian states, they are all anamolies... they have links to Iran, America, Russia, and China, and all mostly each other... perhaps they should be divided between those four?

I'll try to do some research... keep up the good work.

[Centauri18]

Good grief, does everybody hate Bush? I know he's not a perfect leader, but he does the best he can. Bush Sr. didn't finish the job when it came to Iraq, and he should have. George W. is only getting picked on because America feels it has other worries, mainly the recession, and people feel like they need someone to blame. And it's almost alwys the president or someone in Congress. Grow up, people.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Centauri18
Good grief, does everybody hate Bush? I know he's not a perfect leader, but he does the best he can. Bush Sr. didn't finish the job when it came to Iraq, and he should have. George W. is only getting picked on because America feels it has other worries, mainly the recession, and people feel like they need someone to blame. And it's almost alwys the president or someone in Congress. Grow up, people.

That's a load of you-know-what. The man was not elected and needs to distract his populace from this fact, and the fact that his ludicrous domestic policies are destroying the economy, strengthening segregation and hurting non-elites of all kinds.

It's just like in Civ, when someone declares war on you: if you prosecute a successful war against them, many cities will celebrate "We Love The President Day". Bush Jr. is counting on the same thing.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Centauri18
Good grief, does everybody hate Bush? I know he's not a perfect leader, but he does the best he can. Bush Sr. didn't finish the job when it came to Iraq, and he should have. George W. is only getting picked on because America feels it has other worries, mainly the recession, and people feel like they need someone to blame. And it's almost alwys the president or someone in Congress. Grow up, people.

another person blinded by propaganda and us-media self -imposed censorship.
but please come on topic. for this there are enough threads in the OT-forum.

i think caribbean and middle american civs should either be on their own or together with mexico or a south american civ. even though a lot officially are pro-western, they are latin american and culturally nearer to other "latinos" than to the US.

although this is a modern day scenario, i think we should see the big picture and not just what's current right now. otherwise call it a 2003 scenario.

still looking forward to playing it

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Perhaps the best way to divide America south of the Rio Grande is:

Mexico, Guatemala, Hondorus, El Salvador, Belize, Costa Rica, Panama, Columbia: one civ

Venezuela, Cuba, Brazil, Bolivia, Ecuador: one civ

Argentina, Chile, Peru, Uruguay, and the others I've left out: one civ

This reflects, to the best of my knowledge, current political, and to a lesser extent cultural, groupings.

Agreements? Disagreements? I'll post a more detailed explanation of my rationale if anyone is interested.

[Roman]

Sorry, for my temporary absence from the boards - I have been busy. In any case, I will now make up for it with some more information: (Often I do not know the proportions of old to new equipment, so make your own judgement on that when not indicated.)


Main Battle Tanks:-
1. Russia - 16,800 (Down from over 60,000 in 1990)
2. China - 7,100 old ones + 1,000 modern = 8,100 total
3. USA - 8,087
4. Syria - 3,100 old + 1,500 medium age = 4,600 total
5. Turkey - 4,300 (some old, some medium age)
6. Israel - 4,050 (Most are old, but significant numbers are modern)
7. Ukraine - 4,026
8. India - 3,500
9. North Korea - 3,400 old ones
10. Egypt - 3,300 all are old
11. Germany - 2,700 (All are modern, or at least relatively so)
12. Iraq - 2,700
13. Libya - 2,200
14. South Korea - 2,050
15. Pakistan - 1,950
16. Poland - 1,727
17. Iran - 1,440
18. Italy - 1,300
19. Serbia and Montenegro - 1,300
20. Vietnam - 1,300 all are old
21. Japan - 1,100
22. France - 1,084
23. Czech Republic - 1,010
24. Saudi Arabia - 1,000
25. Yemen - 1,000 old and medium age
26. Algeria - 1,000 old and medium age
27. Netherlands - 750
28. Spain - 700
29. Switzerland - 642
30. Jordan - 600
31. UK - 590 (All are modern)

[Centauri18]

I'm sorry. It's just that I never hear anybody say anything good about him. And as for that particular post, I'd been operating on an entire day without sleep, so I apologize.

[Roman]

Originally posted by Centauri18
I'm sorry. It's just that I never hear anybody say anything good about him. And as for that particular post, I'd been operating on an entire day without sleep, so I apologize.

Well, if it makes you feel better, I like Bush's policy on nuclear power stations, since I think they are a secure (in terms of fuel supplies) and comparatively environmentally friendly (sure they produce nuclear waste, but no greenhouse gasses or pollution) way of generating electricity. Renewable energies currently cannot supply us with all the energy we need, so we ought to go nuclear (in combination with as many renewable energy production facilities as are feasible).

I think it is particularly Bush's inclination to go to war with Iraq that makes him so unpopular. Frankly, I do not think the war is in the US interest. If Bush wants oil it would be much easier (and cheaper!) to simply allow Iraq to export it and keep the inspectors in to deal with WMD.

[Luk]

Lots of misunderstendings in this list of tanks...

For example China:
6000 Type 59-II
1200 Type 69
500 Type 80
800 Type 85-II
100 Type 90-II

It is a real nimber for china... Only Type-90II can be treated as modern, but I would like to say it is higher middle class.

Poland - 1700 - nope, we magazined year ago 900 T-55, and we have 800 tanks.

Mostly, the old tanks in clash with modern tanks have no chance to win even if ratio would be 10:1 or higher!!!!

And Russia - we do not know how many tanks do they have, but analitycs say that over 20.000

[Roman]

Originally posted by Luk
Lots of misunderstendings in this list of tanks...

For example China:
6000 Type 59-II
1200 Type 69
500 Type 80
800 Type 85-II
100 Type 90-II

It is a real nimber for china... Only Type-90II can be treated as modern, but I would like to say it is higher middle class.

Right, but we are unlikely to split up tanks into so many classes, perhaps only old, medium age, and modern, so the above still applies.

Poland - 1700 - nope, we magazined year ago 900 T-55, and we have 800 tanks.

Fair enough - my info on Poland was from year 2000.

Mostly, the old tanks in clash with modern tanks have no chance to win even if ratio would be 10:1 or higher!!!!

I agree!

And Russia - we do not know how many tanks do they have, but analitycs say that over 20.000

Well, my sources estimate the number of Russian tanks at 16,800 in year 2000 and at 19,000 in year 1996.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Luk
Mostly, the old tanks in clash with modern tanks have no chance to win even if ratio would be 10:1 or higher!!!!

so what? tanks don't have to fight other tanks.
even old ones can blast through defences, destroy houses, blow up factories or fuel and weapons deposits or -as in china's case- squash several hundred demonstrators by just running over them

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Well put Sabrewolf. And besides, this scenario should be made for the Pakistani player that wants to overrun India, and vice versa... every piece of equipment counts!!! Even for holding down the populace.

I also wanted to suggest a special unit for this scenario:

The suicide bomber.

Treated a missile unit, incredibly cheap (1 per turn), incredibly low attack (say, 2) and 1 defense. Maybe with worker functions, as well?

Palestine is not the only "country" to use suicide bomber attacks... the Tamils of Sri Lanka are the real masters of it.

BTW, I sincerely hope that the Tamil-Sri Lanka conflict will be represented in this scenario... it's fascinating, and one to watch.

How about the Child Soldier as a special unit? A less effective guerilla maybe?