MOD: korn's Blitz Mod

[korn469]

my idea was to give modern naval units treat all terrain as roads and blitz so they could move in the 9-15 {ie they would have 3-5 movement points) range and they would also be able to carry out multiple attacks

this could mean a battleship off of your coast could be more than an annoyance

however it didn't work, treat all terrain as road doesn't function with naval units, but i did email barry about this as well and hopefully the next patch will solve this problem and the navy will become an important part of the air/land/sea triad

so here is how i have tweaked the naval units so far

Ancient Naval Units
*Galley 0.1.2 10|1 (sink in sea, sink in ocean) {Caravel} NONE

*War Galley 2.2.3 30 (sink in sea, sink in ocean) {Sloop} Map Making

Middle Age Naval Units
*Caravel 0.1.4 40|2 {Galleon} Astronomy

*Sloop 3.3.5 4[4]1 40 {Frigate} Astronomy

*Frigate 6.5.6 8[4]1 60 {Ironclad} Magnetism

*Man-O-War 8.6.6 8[4]1 60 {Frigate} Magnetism

*Galleon 0.2.5 50|4 {Transport} Magnetism

*Privateer 4.2.7 50 (hidden nationality, zoc) {Commerce Raider} Navigation

Industrial Era Naval Units
*Ironclad 10.9.8 10[5]1 90 {Destroyer} Steel

*Transport 0.6.8 100|8 Mass Production

*Destroyer 12.15.12 12[5]1 110 (can see submarines, zoc) {Aegis Cruiser} Mass Production

*Battleship 25.20.10 16[6]2 200 Mass Production

*Carrier 0.12.10 200|5 (radar, doesn't carry bombers) Advanced Flight

*Submarine 16.6.10 110 (can see submarines, zoc) Mass Production

*Commerce Raider 15.10.11 130 (hidden nationality, zoc) Mass Production

Modern Naval Units
*Aegis Cruiser 16.24.12 12[5]1 160|3 (can see submarines, radar, can carry cruise missiles)

*Nuclear Submarine 10.14.9 150|3 (can see submarines, can carry cruise missiles and tactical nukes)

ok so how do those changes look?

[reefer addict]

great mod korn thx for getting me interested in civ3 again im having a problem with loading aircraft on to my carriers. i know bombers cant be put on carriers with your mod but i cant seem to load anything , no fighters or jet fighters or f-15. i hope its something i did while installing that i can fix but dont know where to start. thx

[korn469]

reefer addict

i'm glad you are enjoying the mod, try this, sail your carrier out of port and see if you can rebase your fighters to it, this should work because i haven't changed anything on fighters that should prevent them from landing on carriers, tell me if you are still having problems

[lockstep]

Just a small thought: To make pursuing a cultural path (as opposed to a military or science strategy) a tougher choice for the player, all 'culture-only' buildings should be attached to optional techs. AFAIK about your plans regarding beta8, this is true for the (amphi)theater (available with Literature) and the opera (Music Theory), but not for the museum (Atomic Theory). So I suggest to make museums available with Nationalism instead.

[korn469]

good idea lockstep!

but nationalism is already possibly the best tech in the game, maybe sanitation instead?

[lockstep]

Sanitation doesn't have to do anything with museums (just like atomic theory).

If you really consider nationalism too powerful with museums (I was also hesitant about it), I'd say make them available with Communism.

[kettyo]

idea on fixing carrier

korn & reefer addict,

we can't use the carriers because the planes are being set to foot soldiers.
it seems aircraft carriers can't load/rebase air units set to foot soldiers.
so my suggestion:

- clear "carry footunits only" flag of carrier
- clear footsoldier flag of fighter,jetfighter,f-15
- add "tactical missile" flag to all bombers

this way carrier will work and will base just fighters not bombers.

[reefer addict]

changing bombers to tactical missles does fix my problem . fighters load without problem and bombers cant re-base on carriers (perfect) thx to all

[kettyo]

Originally posted by korn469
however what role will the air to surface missile play that a tweaked normal cruise missiles can't fill? would they come at different times or what? how would you differentiate between them?
you mentioned increasing the range for air cruise missiles, now if they have the same damage as normal cruise missiles but double the range, then i don't see anyone building normal cruise missiles even if air cruise missiles are subject to air intercepts, if we have two units in the exact same role, one of them is going to be better in most situations and the other one will build the other

korn,

I thought this missiles as "air-launched stand-off attack missiles".
It's a perfect term from the link you gave me thank you. It was really useful. Note it doesn't comment the relative failure of cruise missiles against Yugoslavia. (mainly hitting civilian buildings,chinese embassy etc.)
So every attack missiles planes launch from a safe distance such as american Harpoon or soviet AS-6 Kingfish etc.
The main use of the air missile (asm) would be garrison bombing which is really impossible now because of the low range and movement of the current cruise missile (ssm).
With increasing the range of the ssm naval tactics would become ugly, Destroyers sweeping the seas many tiles before missile carrying ships/subs and when sensing something crush it with the missiles behind (i always play on huge worlds with the lowest land mass for great naval battles). And i doubt the ai will understand this tactic. So i think the ssm range should remain. Increasing ssm movement could possibly be a solution and it could make the asm unnecessary. Just changing the current cruise missile to air unit isn't working because you would lose te ability to load onto cruisers/subs.

There are quite some differences in the use of the hypothetic asm and ssm.

Land war: - asm is immobile and has 8 range while ssm is mobile (moves 1) and has range of 4
- asm is really useful for destroying garrisons & far away weak enemy units & crushing enemy units in neutral territory when having air superiority while ssm is useful for active defense of key locations, cities, fortresses or attacking towards railways without the need of air superiority

Naval war: - cruisers/subs carry ssm, carrier can carry asm
- more ways to use a carrier
- asm can pose serious threat to bombarding/invasion naval forces without carrier support (otherwise the ships just move to the range of 4, shoot their missiles and move away without the risk of being hit. with asm this changes some)

I really think the 2 type of missiles could work better than just 1.
When You think the asm is too powerful compared to the ssm the cost of asm could be increased some. Either one could come with rocketry or electronics i don't know.
Asm is really not launched from the deck of carrier but look at the stats, ssm range is 4 (say the asm missile has same range). So the attack plane carrying the missile just have to fly half the distance to the target which is a safe distance to shoot at the target at range of 8. It's not that bad. Although i don't think it's possible to create a correct animation for this event, for the game it works.


ONE MORE SERIOUS SUGGESTION: Give fighters, jet fighters and f-15s see subs ability for carrier anti-sub searchs to be possible. It's really important because we can't have a recon plane unfortunatly.

Originally posted by korn469
yeap a longbowman english CSU would be historically accurate, but shouldn't the english golden age come slightly later

i don't know, smarter should consider

[korn469]

kettyo and reefer addict

hmmm, i thought i had fixed the carrier bug with beta7.5, damn i missed that one

though what i was going to do is make bombers and stealth units have the foot soldier flag to prevent them from landing on carriers and leave everything else the same, i will hurry on beta8 i've been really busy but i think i can finish it tommorrow

lockstep

communism sounds good

kettyo

i have to be up in 5 hours for work, so i don't have time to respond to your arguments in depth, but i will think about the points you made

here is one comment though

Land war: - asm is immobile and has 8 range while ssm is mobile (moves 1) and has range of 4
- asm is really useful for destroying garrisons & far away weak enemy units & crushing enemy units in neutral territory when having air superiority while ssm is useful for active defense of key locations, cities, fortresses or attacking towards railways without the need of air superiority

on defense air superiority is virtually assured because afaik intercept range for air superiority missions is half operational range, also with asm having 8 range and ssm having 4 range that means the ssm would have to be four spaces past the city to have equal range so in most cases it would have equal range or less, and it is totally dependent upon the enemy not bombarding the roads leading out from it

on a similar note what role do cruise missile fill right now? because it seems like a more cost effective strategy would be to use air units to soften up the advancing enemy then to use mobile ground unit to finish them off, so what advantages does the player have by using cruise missiles?

ONE MORE SERIOUS SUGGESTION: Give fighters, jet fighters and f-15s see subs ability for carrier anti-sub searchs to be possible. It's really important because we can't have a recon plane unfortunatly.

sounds like a good idea, we'll try it and see if it is unbalancing

more to come tommorrow

[TechWins]

i have to be up in 5 hours for work

You work?...

All of the changes going into beta8 sound really cool, but don't feel pressured on your release time for it.

[korn469]

work, school, and battling insomnia
gone for real this time

[falsfire3401]

Gems missing

Hi I just played my first game with this mod, and I really like. However, one oddity I noticed was that there were no gems on the map anywhere. By the endgame I had explored the entire map and didn't see them, they weren't underneath one of the few remaining AI cities as they weren't listed in the trade windows either (not even as "Gems: 0 extra"). Is this an intended side-effect of the mod, to only have 7 luxury resources on the map? I've attached a savegame sampling:

[lockstep]

No, this is no intended effect. It may well be caused by Civ3's general rule that there must be at least one copy of every strategic ressource per civ and at most one copy of every luxury ressource.

[kettyo]

Originally posted by korn469
on a similar note what role do cruise missile fill right now? because it seems like a more cost effective strategy would be to use air units to soften up the advancing enemy then to use mobile ground unit to finish them off, so what advantages does the player have by using cruise missiles?

I think there could be many reasons some that's clear instantly:

- to load on cruisers/subs
maybe even battleships should carry some just like real modern battleships
- for defense of areas outside cities (fortresses, sea gaps etc.)

Some more ideas:

- it could be also a cost effective solution with making the asm cost more
- things could change considerably when we'd get battlefield airdefenses with the new patch
- when it will be possible we can make asm unable to sink ships

Thanks for interest in my ideas !