MOD: korn's Blitz Mod

[Desert Dog]

units

Like I mentioned before I want to see an upgrade for the privateer. Add in some other ships to try and balance out the short comings there.

[Tridotan1]

anyways i have a date but i will be back later on tonight or tommorrow, please post which new units you think are must haves, because i am going to add the new units tommorrow

Great!:

British Commandos/ Green Berets (post possible names everyone) should replace marines and have 2 more attack or something like that. It would be great if you would make them look like marines but give them a green beret.

Torpedoes - I don't know why you didn't reply to my idea but I think that they would be a great addition. They could basically be water cruise missiles. Built at ports, defenceless.

Modern Infantry - I think you are adding these already but I'm just posting to give you my support in making them.

Some kind of bombard unit between the catapult and the cannon. This idea needs developing but you can see what I'm getting at. Perhaps the Trebuchet?

Modern Engineer - as Modern Infantry

War Yacht - a frigate sort of time thing. Small, quick to build, fast, poor in combat. Ever played Cossacks? Make it look like the yacht in it.

Early submarine - We've just a had a tv series about the evolution of the submarine here in Britain and the silent perdators of WW2 that are portrayed in the game were vastly superior to those used in WW1. Make an "early submarine"(post names) and make it available at same time as Ironclad. Coast and sea only, invisible, same defence as ironcald, bit less attack, longer to build than Ironclad. Upgrade to submarine.

Gunboat - Upgrade of war yacht these are/were used as escorts of transports and battleships and there were a large number in any single fleet. They were small boats. Available in battleship period.

Farmer - Wild idea but might work. Modern Engineers only capable of irrigating land and faster at doing so. These will be quite useful because most of a workers time is spent irrigating. And true engineers spend most of their time building roads, imes and railroads. Available 18th century.

[korn469]

thanks for the feedback, anyways here is the list of additional units i have right now

units that are in

engineer --> comes with steampower 0.0.1 20 shields 1 pop all terrain as roads

sloop? --> comes with astronomy the first middle age attack ship

modern infantry/light infantry --> haven't picked the tech yet, but this unit will fill the spot currently filled by mech infantry, and mech infantry will become a high resource requirment fast moving hard hitting unit that compliments modern armor, modern infantry right now will have the following stats 14.18.2 blitz cost i have yet to determine, and i may slightly alter several stats

special forces --> these will be the only units capable of seeing partisans, i haven't determined their stats yet, but they will be highly mobile, and they will also be capable of amphibious assaults and airdrops like paratroopers, most likely invisable, but not hidden nationality, after the new patch comes out i am going to do some changes to partisans, probably taking away their attack ability so they can't capture cities but making them bombard units that can destroy ground units and making them invisable with hidden nationality

jet bomber/supersonic bomber --> an upgrade to the normal bomber that brings it into the modern era, it will be less expensive and require less resources than a stealth bomber...their also happens to be some artwork over at civfanatics

commerce raider --> modern age privateer along the lines of german battleships and battle cruisers in WW2

units that i haven't decided on yet

torpedos: good idea (sorry for not commenting on it earlier Tridotan1 i just didn't have time) but there are a few hitches to implementing them properly, if they are a movable water based cruise missile then they will zoom around the oceans, what i would prefer would be to make them immobile water based cruise missiles, but if they are sea units i don't know if they would load into ships, also i would only want them to attack water squares, and be like normal cruise missiles

early sub/late sub: i'm not sure about this, but i will decide later today, if i do, i will make the first subs weaker, and make the attack sub which comes with fission be about the same strength as the present attack sub, and require uranium

fleet: a water based army, i'm not sure if this is possible, but i'm going to try it

there are some units mentioned that i'm not including, the reasons for this is basically i'm trying to do more with less, and trying to make sure that every unit in the game actually fills a specific role in the game, and that only one unit per time period fills that role...i want every unit to have a use, and if someone thinks that a unit is still useless then that means we need to make some changes

also i'm in agreement with techwins about railroads and i have my fingers crossed that in the new editor you can set the rate for railroads, i would set it at 8-10 and that would improve naval units and airports in the modern era

i will post more later on today

[TechWins]

Here is an idea for changing the food consumption of a citizen the food output of terrain. As of right now the expansion done by the AI is still ridiculous, and the 3 pop settler only holds back the AI expansion for a limited amount of time. Still keep the settler/colonies stats the same, but just change the food output/consumption.

Citizen food consumption - 2

Name / Food output / Irrigation Output / Optimum Output

Desert - 0 - 1 - 1
Plains - 2 - 1 - 3
Grassland - 3 - 1 - 4
Tundra - 1 - 0 - 1
Flood Plain - 4 - 0 - 4
Hills - 2 - 0 - 1
Mountains - 0 - 0 - 0
Forest - 2 - 0 - 2
Jungle - 1 - 0 - 1
Coast - 2 - 0 - 2
Sea - 1 - 0 - 1
Ocean - 0 - 0 - 0

The total optimum is 21 out of the on par optimum of 36 (21/36). Whereas before that number was 16/24. There is quite a large difference in that number, but the main (gralssland, hills, plains, forest) terrain still produce a sufficient amount of food, as well as, flood plains. A total optimum now for those four terrains is 10/12 (5/ 6), whereas, before it was 7/8. Coastal cities have, also, become more potent with a 2/3 ratio instead of 1/2 ratio which I find to be a plus). Concerning the weaker terrains of desert, mountains, tundra, and jungle the new ratio is 3/12 (1/4) and previously it was 3/8. The advantages to this may be: 1) expansion becomes a lot more difficult and realistic. Realistic in the sense that more resources are required for expansion. 2) the improved expansion improves the rest of the game (IMO). 3) less excessive AI expansion will be able to occur. The disadvantages to this may be: 1) the AI will self-destruct by the increased cost of expansion. 2) expansion will be too slow. 3) the whole game becomes unbalanced.

Obviously it will need some playtesting first, but I think it's worth a shot for v1.06beta8.1 or later...you should probaby get v1.06beta8 finished first.

fleet:...

That would truly be great if that did work!

Also, what exactly is the point of adding a lot more naval units? I may sound like a hipocrit here (read above statement), but I don't get it? As of right now naval power is near useless, so how will adding more useless units solve things. Don't get me wrong, though, I would love to see a plethora naval units. But without any relevance to them I don't see the point. IMO, naval units will never have the importance they deserve until the railroad situation gets solved.

[korn469]

Obviously it will need some playtesting first, but I think it's worth a shot for v1.06beta8.1 or later...you should probaby get v1.06beta8 finished first.

hehe thanks for understanding

it looks good, but i haven't done an in depth comparison but here is a question for you

if you had to suggest a system with a 3 food requirement for each pop point how would u do it (basically if there aren't any workers the city starves)

think about that one techwins and see what you come up with

Also, what exactly is the point of adding a lot more naval units? I may sound like a hipocrit here (read above statement), but I don't get it? As of right now naval power is near useless, so how will adding more useless units solve things. Don't get me wrong, though, I would love to see a plethora naval units. But without any relevance to them I don't see the point. IMO, naval units will never have the importance they deserve until the railroad situation gets solved.

well i the only modern naval unit i'm adding is the commerce raider, so the others are unassociated with the railroad problem

basically the galley and the caravel were transport/power units in one that i split into two different units the galley as a transport and the war galley as a naval power unit and the caravel as a transport with the sloop being a naval power unit

slightly increased speed and being on par or better than land unit in terms of bombardment will also help the situation, but i'm not sure if it will make navies as important as they need to be, especially not with infinate movement railroads, but i do wanna cover all of the bases in terms of naval units and try to balance it as best as possible even if it is a sideshow, it might not be as important as land but i wanna make it balanced

[Elucidus]

Originally posted by korn469


if you had to suggest a system with a 3 food requirement for each pop point how would u do it (basically if there aren't any workers the city starves)

think about that one techwins and see what you come up with

Korn,

If you consider raising the food eaten per citizen and the amount of food per tile, remember a couple of things:

1) The base City Tile can't be changed with the editor (looks like you want ot keep it the same, so that isn't a big deal

2) The food storage amount cannot be changed. Slight changes shouldn't make much of a difference, but I toyed with a similar idea and decided against it as it seemed to imbalance the game somewhat. If you get the numbers right, however, and with a 3-food-eaten system then it could work out okay, but I wanted to let you know what I found in my trials.

Also the bonus grassland bonus shield can't be changed in the editor, just another terrain thing I found out.


Regards,
Elucidus

[TechWins]

if you had to suggest a system with a 3 food requirement for each pop point how would u do it (basically if there aren't any workers the city starves)

Well, from a realistic PoV, how can a city produce any food if nobody is working? From a different PoV, aren't you the same one who suggests that a city should have have a requirement of having at least one city worker? This system. also. fullfills another aspect, it makes pop rushing (i.e. eventually turning workers into entertainers) more of a bad move. Basically it makes it smarter (more essential) to have workers in the field.

well i the only modern naval unit i'm adding is the commerce raider

basically the galley and the caravel were transport/power units in one that i split into two different units the galley as a transport and the war galley as a naval power unit and the caravel as a transport with the sloop being a naval power unit

Yeah, I agree with all of those...in fact I'm not skeptical anymore at all about adding the Sloop. I guess you really aren't adding all that many more naval units; maybe it just seems that way with all of the talk about ideas for new naval units.

Some unit name ideas:

Privateer --> Wako
The privateer is quite a lame name IMO. And you say that the game concentrates too much on western culture, so lets use the name of a Japanese pirate boat. The Chinese called these boats Wakos because Wa means Japan in Chinese.

Possibly the Sloop could be called the Cog ("because of the greater beam and stability of the roundship type that they grew to their eventual extent as integral parts of the superstructure.), but Sloop sounds cooler hehe. The official name of the roundship was the Cog, JTLYK.

[korn469]

1) The base City Tile can't be changed with the editor (looks like you want ot keep it the same, so that isn't a big deal

yea i was counting on the base square staying the same, so that if you had a size 1 city and turned it into a specialist the city would starve

2) The food storage amount cannot be changed. Slight changes shouldn't make much of a difference, but I toyed with a similar idea and decided against it as it seemed to imbalance the game somewhat

i've been cautious about changing food values for unbalancing the entire game, but if we can come up a system that works and accomplishes this i would love it, because despot rushing would die

Also the bonus grassland bonus shield can't be changed in the editor, just another terrain thing I found out

i wasn't going to change shields they feel right, but thanks for pointing this out

also since i'm getting rid of the palace defensive bonus, i have replaced it with something else, and made one other tweak...however it is a fairly profound tweak, but i'll wait till i release beta8 before i'll tell you about it

so wait in anticipation till then

[TechWins]

1) The base City Tile can't be changed with the editor (looks like you want ot keep it the same, so that isn't a big deal

So are you saying that even if grassland produces 3 food when a city is built on grassland it will still only produce 2 food? That doesn't make much sense. Sorry I don't understand what you mean by this.

2) The food storage amount cannot be changed.

Hopefully that will all change soon (i.e. next patch).

Slight changes shouldn't make much of a difference, but I toyed with a similar idea and decided against it as it seemed to imbalance the game somewhat. If you get the numbers right, however, and with a 3-food-eaten system then it could work out okay, but I wanted to let you know what I found in my trials.

Yes, I read the changes you tried to make, but you also have to figure that you tried to tweak the production levels of the terrains to go along with the tweaks of the food ouput (x5 on both IIRC), whereas, only a slight change to the food output will be made. My main fear is that growth will be slowed down way too much, and it will unbalance the game. However, I don't see that happening, and I think it will improve the game.

[korn469]

From a different PoV, aren't you the same one who suggests that a city should have have a requirement of having at least one city worker?

whatever it takes...and we need a mwwhahaha smiley

Yeah, I agree with all of those...in fact I'm not skeptical anymore at all about adding the Sloop. I guess you really aren't adding all that many more naval units; maybe it just seems that way with all of the talk about ideas for new naval units

their are only three new naval units, while we get two new non combat units, one new air unit, one new army, and four new land units, so it's not too bad

Privateer --> Wako

hmmm, maybe the corsair...but wako kinda reminds me of crazy lol

So are you saying that even if grassland produces 3 food when a city is built on grassland it will still only produce 2 food? That doesn't make much sense. Sorry I don't understand what you mean by this.

yea i think that is what he means

[TechWins]

whatever it takes...and we need a mwwhahaha smiley

Yeah sure ...

their are only three new naval units, while we get two new non combat units, one new air unit, one new army, and four new land units, so it's not too bad

You're right.

hmmm, maybe the corsair...but wako kinda reminds me of crazy lol

Well, pirates aren't exactly the most stable of people lol.

yea i think that is what he means

I don't see why that would be...maybe that only occurs under despotism, and he didn't play long enough to find out otherwise.

[Elucidus]

Firstly I take offense to you saying that I didn't test what information I gave.
----

Secondly, yes, that is exactly what I am saying. And yes I played for a while. I disected everything about it, that is why I offered the information that I had discovered, in case Korn did not know it. Maybe you should have waited for my answer before you tried to guess what it is I meant, although Korn was right on. The city tile is always the same. It does not matter what terrain it is on, or what the default for any terrain gives.

Also the despotism penalty to production only takes one off of the top of the final amount given (if that total is above 2). That is something to consider. BTW, Techwins if you don't believe me, as you seem not to, you are welcome to try it out. Edit a terrain to give you 20 of everything. Then settle on that terrain. Viola!

Actually, what you read about some of the changes I tried to make were some preliminary numbers. I worked with smaller ones too, especially after I discovered the despotism penalty being ineffective and the food storage uneditable, amoung other things.

And what does what I did with the production levels have to do with anything? As a matter of fact the production levels were on par with what I was trying for, except the bonus shield thing, and the despotism penalty. I am still toying with the idea, and would like to get a system of x4 or x5 in place, but I will have to wait until I find a way to change everything.

Also, I never said it won't improve the game. All I was doing was offering some information that I had already discovered. Sharing knowledge with a fellow mod-maker so as to allow him to be better prepared and know some of the things that may crop up when he attempts this. If the things I mentioned do not cause a problem then great, but this way he may know in advance if something might be a problem. I wasn't argueing or telling anyone they were wrong. I guess I'll just send my info directly to Korn next time.

[korn469]

Firstly I take offense to you saying that I didn't test what information I gave

elucidus, i don't think that techwins was saying that

So are you saying that even if grassland produces 3 food when a city is built on grassland it will still only produce 2 food? That doesn't make much sense. Sorry I don't understand what you mean by this.

i just don't think that he completely comprehended what you were saying, i tested this before, but i forgot to right down the results

also on here it is easy to miscommunicate intentions, i have hurt more than a few people's feeling accidently so i know how it goes

the basic problems with 3 food req pop are the following

*the despotism tile penalty slows down growth too much, but it is really vital to government balance
*maintaining the same level of growth is hard to do
*starving enemy cities is too easy

what i would like is to achieve the following two things

1) cities without any workers starve
2) cities established in deserts and tundra starve if no specials or food improvements exists

that is all i want to do, but i might have figured out a way to simulate the first aim without changing food, but i haven't figured out the second yet

[Elucidus]

Sorry Korn, but that is how I take

maybe that only occurs under despotism, and he didn't play long enough to find out otherwise.

Other than that, if they allow us more creative freedom with the editor and terrain on the next patch, you may be able to change the despotism penalty, so that it is based on government. After all there is no way to send excess food to cities that don't have enough, so I consider this to simulate it. With older gov'ts you wouldn't get as much, but as you enter newer ones, you would get more and then be able to have a decent size city in the desert. I mean we have quite a few here in the states, and although they don't grow their own food, how many cities actually do?

[korn469]

Other than that, if they allow us more creative freedom with the editor and terrain on the next patch, you may be able to change the despotism penalty, so that it is based on government. After all there is no way to send excess food to cities that don't have enough, so I consider this to simulate it.

it would be cool once you had a railroad link between cities if you could send the part of the food surplus to other cities, like a city could send surplus food to a city with maybe a cap of 10 extra food from outside the city or something, that way each city could specialize a little more, but i doubt it will happen

one thing i would like to see in the editor is a way to edit the base square and the bonuses it got at each city level, or if you could make it so that if a city didn't have any workers they couldn't get food from the base square