MOD: korn's Blitz Mod

[korn469]

francoImpaler

i fixed the problem with upgrading units, sorry about that! (you have to select which units they upgrade to and then click an upgrade box)

although not clicking on the upgrade box allows units to disappear from the build queue (which is what i want), but it prevents you from upgrading them (which i am ambivilent about, both sides has pros and cons), so any thoughts about the significance of this (especially from all of those who opposed upgrading units to begin with)?

also i made a few quick changes based on the feed back

*factory now requires mill, and does not become obsolete
*obelisk are now 60/1/1
*pyramids now cost 300 (IRL i saw on a documentry about the great walls that the original span of great wall cost 12 times as much to build as the pyramids)
*generals now function as armies, but upgrade to armies and can build armies, this was done to allow the AI to use them effectively (before they didn't have an AI at all, because they can't use leader AI unless they have both build armies and hurry improvements)

tech wins the blitz ability is the game, where are you having problems with it? tanks, modern armor, panzers, mech infantry, fighters, bombers, jet fighters, F-15s, stealth fighters, stealth bombers, and armies (including generals) should have it

also i need to update the civilopedia, i haven't had the time to do this (busy with finals, holidays, and just life) and i don't plan on making any more changes to the blitz mod until the patch comes out which should be sometime this week (unless they delay it)...if anyone wants to help me with the civilopedia i would appreciate the help very much, if not i will work on it as time allows

one other thing i am only able to play about one or two quick games to play test each new version because of time constraints, and i encourage everyone to playtest as much as possible, and to provide as much feedback as you can

however to have a measuring stick to go by i encourage everyone to playtest at least one game on each of the Apolyton Challenges, that would give us a control group to see how the changes to the blitz mod effect the game compared to the regular civ3mod rules

Apolyton Tournament #1
Apolyton Tournament #2

keep the feedback coming guys!
i want this to be the best possible Mod for civ3

[TechWins]

Anyhow, it´s somewhat strange that the mill not only gets obsolete, but does so with the next-but-one production-boosting buildings (the power plants). Ít´s like the marketplace would get obsolete with the (added) stock exchange.

After reading Korn's lastest post I finally realized what you meant (I must have just misinterpreted what you wrote), and I also agree (I trited to imply that in my last post, BtW) with that too.

*obelisk are now 60/1/1
*pyramids now cost 300 (IRL i saw on a documentry about the great walls that the original span of great wall cost 12 times as much to build as the pyramids)

Along with Lockstep, I think you should make it so the Pyramids gives you a Forum in every city and just drop the Obelisk completely.

if anyone wants to help me with the civilopedia i would appreciate the help very much, if not i will work on it as time allows

tech wins the blitz ability is the game, where are you having problems with it? tanks, modern armor, panzers, mech infantry, fighters, bombers, jet fighters, F-15s, stealth fighters, stealth bombers, and armies (including generals) should have it

I created a General and I turned into an Army. I then loaded two veteran Horsemen inside the Army. When I was attacking with this particular Army I was not allowed to use the blitz ability. Is the reason for that because I have to have one of the more 'modern' units inside my Army instead of my 'old' Horsemen?

Since you have done some wonderful work on this mod (improves gameplay considerably) I will try to find some time this week to update the civilopedia to the best of my abilities.

BtW, could you provide me a link to the statements Firaxis/Infogrames has made about the patch, excluding Dan's comments on Civ Fanatics (I have already seen that). I can't seem to find it on either Firaxis' site nor Infogrames' site.

[Harlan]

Hi,
I've just played a long game for most of the weekend, using this patch. Here are some more thoughts.

I've noticed though that the AI civs build wonders a lot, but not very intelligently. Most civs gets techs at roughly the same time, and then most all of them will start building whatever the given wonder is. Of course, only one will get it. This seems a great waste to me. Count up all the lost shields for all the almost-made-it-in-time wonders, and that's a lot of lost production. If the AI were a human, they would be more selective about which wonders to choose, picking only those they had a fair chance of winning.

Seems it would make sense to have less competition on wonders, by dividing them so not everyone could build them all at once. What happened to the effort to have late wonders available only to certain governments? I'd like to see lots more of that kind of thing. If I made a mod, I'd probably have all wonders connected to one government type only. Looks like the Balancer mod is having a lot of success with this, and with gvmt-specific improvements as well.

Anyways, my biggest gripe with the most recent game I've played is that I ran out of stuff to build around the end of the modern age. More recent improvements need to cost more to make up for the increased production, increased gold, and so forth. Especially since there seems to be a limit to a max of 4 turns to the next research goal, no matter how much research you're doing. I ended up gearing up for a great war, cos all I had left to build was military units. Partly this was due to rushing the Hoover Dam with a leader, but still, a big problem.

I agree with Lockstep that its not preferrable to have 4 buildings doing the same thing. Instead, each building should cost more and more (and be worth it).

One specific suggestion that will help with this. One, I noticed you split Harbor into two - the same needs to be done to Airport. Airport should be a "must build" improvement, whereas I certainly didn't feel it necessary. Every halfway decent sized city in the world has an airport. The CTP games had airport give a production or money boost (I forget which) - this mod should do something similar. That also creates the new building - Airbase - another thing to build.

By the way, would it be possible to have a second Forbidden City wonder? That would be key for late game expansion.

I noticed by the way that Forbidden City, Palace and Courthouses still cost lots. I think they should be way cheaper.

I also noticed the Explorer unit is completely useless, at least in the medium sized world games I've been playing. By the time this unit is available, the whole world has been discovered already. This unit needs something to make it more useful, or come way earlier (as in the Balancer mod), or be eliminated.

"Along with Lockstep, I think you should make it so the Pyramids gives you a Forum in every city and just drop the Obelisk completely."

Ditto - no need for extra buildings.

I noticed the AI civs were completely misusing the General units. I hope that's fixed now. There were a number of cities I conquered with a General or two in them, just sitting there, defending, I guess.

[TechWins]

Korn,

I have been trying to update the Civilopedia for you, but it is very difficult because the verision # update file doesn't include an overall mod update section. What I mean by 'overall mod update' section is that their should be a section in your 'version # update' file that states all the changes you have made that are still in place in the most current mod. Such as in one version you might have made building x then decided to take away buidling x. This becomes very difficult looking at if the change you made in the earlier versions is still true. Refer to the way Ancient shows his 'version # update' file for a visual showing.

If you could do this continously it would make it very easy to update the civilopedia and for people new to the mod to get a better feeling for what the mod offers. Instead of them having to depict what changes are still in effect by going through each version update.

I've noticed though that the AI civs build wonders a lot

I've also noticed that, not to mention, the AI doesn't build many city improvements. Now I doubt Korn will be able to find a way to entice the AI to build more city improvements and less wonders by the available modding, but if there is a way (efficient/balanced) that would be fantastic.

If I made a mod, I'd probably have all wonders connected to one government type only. Looks like the Balancer mod is having a lot of success with this, and with gvmt-specific improvements as well.

"*Mothballed the Movie Theater, Propaganda Ministry, and Classless Society because Government Specific buildings are beyond the scope of the editor."(Korn)

I agree with Lockstep that its not preferrable to have 4 buildings doing the same thing. Instead, each building should cost more and more (and be worth it).

Well, I'm going to have to jump on this bandwagon now and say that I agree. It becomes quite repeptitive buidling the same improvement over and over again.

By the way, would it be possible to have a second Forbidden City wonder? That would be key for late game expansion.

Please do not do this! The AI already expands way too much for my liking (no, I don't find it too difficult, either, yet just boring), and this might be another for the AI to expand.

Regarding Airbases, I was actually surprised to see that you didn't add them, even though, you added a Port Facility (Airbase needs to be added). I think having the Airport decrease corruption would be a nice idea. It would give the Airport more value, while showing that in modern times travel makes corruption less of a problem or something like that.

I noticed by the way that Forbidden City, Palace and Courthouses still cost lots. I think they should be way cheaper.

The Courthouse is way too expensive and needs to be have it's cost lowered. However, I don't think the Forbidden City and Palace should be cheap. The reason why is because they should be strategically place and not plopped down all over the map continously.

What exactly is the point of the Explorer? Now I can understand how the Scout could be slightly useful but the Explorer! To increase the value of each unit I have a few proposals for them:

1) Have the Scout cost 10 and Have the stats of 0.0.1 but it counts all terrain as a road..

2) Have the Explorer cost 20 and have the stats of 0.0.2 but it counts all terrian as a road.

3) Have both the Scout and Explorer have a hidden nationality.

4) Where the Explorer left its spot open (Navigation) fill that spot up with a Conquistador.

5) Have the Conquistador cost 20 and have the stats 1.1.3 but it counts all terrain as a road. (the Conquistador does not have a hidden nationality)

Imlying those five changes into your mod will make exploring with actual explorers (the general term not the unit) much more enticing. I hope you give that idea some serious consideration. If you wish to have an explanation on each of those five changes just ask, and I will gladly do so.

[Umgssda]

More possible city improvements:

Abbeys were important, cultural and scientific centres in the early middle ages, and they are also not bound to a certain religion.

Schools have a general positive effect on society, but a single school is not that special to be mentioned (unlike universities) so I would suggest to introduce a small wonder 'compulsory education' or 'national education system' or however you want to call it.

Maybe you could introduce an inland port aswell. It would need a fresh water access, and boosts commerce. Rivers have always been a major trade route, so this would probably be available very early in the game.

Another interesting concept might be social ensurance. This should cost money, but make citizens content

[korn469]

tech wins

i will add an overall mod update in v1.06, i guess it does get confusing looking at the long, long list of changes

i will also take all of the suggestions into account, and hopefully the patch will give me some new tools to work with

one thing in particular is the airbase (i was thinking of calling it an airforce installation)

if you don't click "enables air trade" my testing shows that it won't allow you to airlift units...so i didn't bother adding it this time

however, i have been thinking about this and i have came to the conclusion that it should enable air trade (so it units can air lift) and allow veteran air units, and that to make up with this make the normal airport cost more, enable air trade and give either +50 to tax revenues, or +25% production

i have been busy though as school finishes up and won't have any free time to update the mod till the weekend, hopefully the patch will be out by then

[jkjones]

Originally posted by TechWins

Along with Lockstep, I think you should make it so the Pyramids gives you a Forum in every city and just drop the Obelisk completely.

I haven't tried out the Mod yet (I'm definitely going to), but would be sorry to see the Pyramids no longer give me granaries (in theory anyhow, as I can never beat the AI to them!). How about a new wonder called the "Parthenon" that gives Forums - seems to fit better. I do like the Obelisk idea though - I'm a committed peaceful/cultural/builder player and the more culture I can get, the better.

Originally posted by TechWins

I created a General and I turned into an Army. I then loaded two veteran Horsemen inside the Army.

As the aforementioned peaceful player, hallelujah for the "General" unit. I've only managed one leader since I started playing 5/6 weeks ago (however long it was). It'd be nice to actually put together an army and get the related small wonders built when all the rest of the Civs decide to gang up on me (NOTE TO SELF: Never let the Aztecs build up a civ next to yours!)

Anyhow, I'll be getting this mod tonight, once I finish my current game. I can't wait!

[jkjones]

More building suggestions

EDIT: OK - now that I've started, I can't stop. I promise a more organized, coherent post later tonight or tomorrow which will include credit where credit is due for suggestions. I'll have a chance to actually check out the Mod too instead of just imagining how good it is! JKJ

====================================

Sorry if I duplicate anyone's posts - I was greatly inspired by reading through the rest of this thread.

---------------------------------
Commercial Buildings:
---------------------------------
* Marketplace > Bank > Stock Exchange (bring it back)
(build 5 stock exchanges --> Wall Street allowed)

* Airport - Allows for resource trading, airlift and gives trade bonus (think O'Hare, JFK, Hartsfield, etc.); doesn't allow Veteran air unit ability

* Harbor - Same as current, minus Veteran ship ability.

* Corporation / Franchise - I saw this in one of the posts (sorry for the lack of credit!); provides a trade increase; build 5 "franchises" and it allows the "Corporate Trust" wonder (i.e. Standard Oil, et al)

---------------------------------
Military Buildings:
---------------------------------
* Air Base - allows for veteran air units, airlift capability; no commerce, etc. (allowed by Flight)

* Naval Base - Allows for veteran naval units (note: it would be cool to have "colonies" permit naval bases - think the British Empire with support bases all around the globe); no commerce, etc. (allowed by Navigation); alternatively, this ability could be combined with "Coastal Fortress"

EDIT: I hadn't seen the previous post, so you've already covered the Air Base / Naval Base deal.

* Walls - they definitely need help in some way or other as they aren't worth building unless you are desperate right now (and maybe not even then since they expire once your city gets too big).

* Barracks - should be required to allow the "General" unit, "Armies", etc. Should there also be a modern "Military Base" that replaces barracks & allows for things like Tanks, Mech Infantry, & Modern Armor to be built?

---------------------------------
Cultural Buildings
---------------------------------

* RELIGIOUS: Temple > Monastery > Cathedral - not sure which tech to add the monastery to, but from a historical perspective, it would seem to be a logical in-between step. Maybe with Mysticism? Also, I like the idea that Sistine Chapel/JS Bach require 5 Cathedrals.

* EDUCATIONAL: Library > University > Research Lab - good progression; maybe make the GL require 5 libraries; Newton require 5 Universities & SETI require 5 Research Labs?

* ENTERTAINMENT: Coliseum (sp?) > Stadium (modern) -
Stadiums can be built with Radio technology; maybe replace the old coliseum and provide a boost in happiness & culture. (For the sports fans - 5 Stadia = Professional Sports League! Then a new engine that boosts or decreases happiness based on how your team is doing... )

* Radio/TV - I think this is definitely something that should be added. Maybe the "Radio" tech becomes "Broadcasting" and allows for Broadcast Station (radio or TV); build 5 Broadcast Stations and you can build the "Broadcast Network" small wonder; these should provide both a trade boost and culture boost. Think CNN everywhere!

* CULTURAL - Add Theatre to "Free Artistry" and require 5 Theatres for Shakespeare's Theatre. I like the idea of Newspaper w/ Printing Press even though it doesn't synch historically. Also, the Museum could be added to Scientific Theory --> 5 Museums allow ToE. It'd be nice if "Museums" would also allow for some educational boost - maybe like having a scientist in the city.

---------------------------------
PRODUCTION BUILDINGS
---------------------------------
* Mill > Factory > Manufacturing Plant - adding the Mill is a good idea as an early shield booster - 25% or 50% maybe; must be in a water-adjacent square. Maybe with "Construction" - water mills & even windmills have been around for a long time. I agree with the poster that said MPs come way too late; no good suggestions on where to move them up to however.

* Offshore Platform - I like it; for the mods that allow Oil in coastal squares, this should also allow you to "connect" them as a strategic resource (maybe it counts as a "road" or something like that).

EDIT: Continuation...

---------------------------------
CORRUPTION BUILDINGS
---------------------------------
* Courthouse - perhaps a new industrial age small wonder could be "Supreme Court" - requires 5 courthouses; it would effectively be a modern FP. I know there's concern about the further expansion, but in every game I've played, between myself and the AI, we fill every bit of land anyhow by the early industrial age. Courthouses also could be a candidate to add a small amount of culture - think how the "rule of law" helps civilize the land.

* Police Stations - should be a corruption reducer in addition to war weariness.

* Newspapers - definitely a good corruption fighter; they should also add some culture as well.

So, hopefully, plenty of food for thought for 1.06, 1.07, etc.

JKJ

p.s. Thanks to everyone in this thread (and elsewhere) who helped inspire and organize these thoughts.

[badassb]

I've installed the mod but the game always gives a fatal error when I advance to the modern age. ( something like "fatal error in CIV3.exe")

I like the changes of this mod a lot so does anyone know about this problem? Oh yeas and I did create the new folders for the partisan unit and general unit.


----------------civing is an art------------

[Harlan]

One quick thing to report. I'm playing with the most recent version of this mod, and the AI still doesn't appear to be using the General units correctly. Several times, I attacked AI cities, only to find General units sitting there, unused.

[lockstep]

From the readme.txt to Civilization III v1.16f:

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS:
Editor: Added a small wonder ability checkbox for "Requires a Victorious Army" for Improvements and Wonders.

So, by unchecking this flag for the Military Academy, you should be able to build armies without getting a single leader. No need for generals anymore.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
Corruption calculations for Communism are now flat for the number-of-cities factor.

Government adding and tweaking, here we go again!

[Desert Dog]

Wierd graphics but good mod!

Hey I really like the mod so far. Especially because it did not crash on my playing on 230x230 map . One thing on my computer anyways I get this tracer trail above all the units where the HP bar is. I have a Radeon All In Wonder video card. Anyone else see or experience this?
What happened to the icon for the forum? I notice it is missing when I look at my build que.

Desert Dog

[Glostakarov]

Re: Wierd graphics but good mod!

Originally posted by Desert Dog
One thing on my computer anyways I get this tracer trail above all the units where the HP bar is. I have a Radeon All In Wonder video card. Anyone else see or experience this?

I'm getting this too with my old voodoo2, I think it's just a function of the hp bar being too tall and the refresh not covering it. The tall bars also occasionally result in a unit's hp bar being partially hidden by that of it's opponent in combat. However, this to me is an acceptable price to pay for the affect on combat that doubling hp/rof has. Armies seem to have compressed hp bars, I wonder if there's a way to make the game do that with other units. Probably not worth the bother though.

On another matter, I've noticed the AI using Confederation exclusively in the ancient age; I think they really like the lack of limits on tile production, which does seem to make up for the corruption once you get cities large enough. They're beating me to around half the wonders at any rate, which they didn't do when we were all stuck with Despotism until Monarchy or Republic. If the communal corruption setting is fixed, Confederation might actually need weakening after the patch to keep it from being too good.

All in all, it's a fun mod.

[korn469]

so after playinga few games, anyone got a list wish of changes once the patch comes out?

btw i too experience the hitpoint graphic thing