A good WWII scenario, finally!

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Harlan

3 France (incl. Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg)
4 Italy (incl. Axis minor allies of Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, etc)
8 Norway and Denmark
12 Turkey
13 Iraq
14 Portugal
15 Persia
16 Neutrals (Switzerland, Arabia, Afghanistan (if map goes that far east))

---------------

2. Allies (US, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, etc)
7. Mongolia

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Is anyone planning on making such scenarios?

Replied in order of appearance in the quote.

I would actually prefer to change these civs (see above) in
WWII Europe, because some of them didn't have a mayor
role in the war, they're not accurate or the map would be
then too large.

France should only be France, and not also the Low Countries,
because it wouldn't be so realistic. Italy should be Musso's Italy
and those other German allies could be separated to own civs
(see my suggestion). Norway and Denmark should also be separated
and as I said before, Denmark didn't have any important role
in the war. If you don't get the clue, put it
like this - did Wehrmacht have to fight for Denmark? Not at all.
Turkey joined the war few weeks before the end of the war
in Europe and if they would be included, the map would grow
further more. Portugal and Persia? AFAIK Portugal didn't take
part in the war (can't recall if they fought in 1938 against Franco),
and Persia would be out of interest. The neutrals could
be replaced with just Switzerland, so that the map wouldn't be
too wide and the scenario would be more realistic.

Then about the war in the Pacific...
The Allies should be replaced with UK, US, India and Australia.
Why? It would once again make the game more realistic and
then there wouldn't be a too strong civ (compare to the
Coalition in the Gulf War scenario, Civ II - CiC) that could
easily defeat any other civ.

Mongolia? Are you trying to pull my leg?

And at last the question about any upcoming WWII scenarios
for Civ III. If the Civ III provides good opportunities to
make own scenarios, then I might even make a WWII Europe
scenario. But before that, I have many other ideas waiting
for being made reality.

[Buck Birdseed]

Which was a vaguely different war, and the support was "unofficial" anyway.

Naw, there would only be two reasons the Germans would want to get at Sweden: Resources, and Troop Transport to strategically important Finland and Norway. The swedish government supplied both. Of course, by the time the Germans started losing rapidly in 43, they withdrew the support and began supplying the Allies instead.

It was very dishonourable, but it worked: Sweden stayed out of the war, kept people better fed than anywhere else in europe at the time, and got a "head start" on European industry after the war.

[Fiil]

Originally posted by Rasbelin
Denmark isn't included, because it would be "worthless".

buuuuhuuuu, snif, snif...

We're not worthless, we're not! Snif

Actually it is the opinion in Denmark that Germany needed the Danish pigs to feed his growing army. Denmark was and still is the biggest producer of pigs in the world.
Some say that Hitler only wanted direct access to Norway but we don't believe such nonsence!

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Fiil

We're not worthless, we're not!

Actually it is the opinion in Denmark that Germany needed the Danish pigs to feed his growing army.

Well, there's some reality in that theory of feeding
the German pigs with Danish food supplies.

But I don't think Denmark and it's nice(?) citizens
are worthless. Actually I have been there.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by JellyDonut
Germany - Germans
Soviet Union - Russians
United Kingdom - British
France - French
Italians - Rome
Japanese - Japan
Chinese - China
United States - Americans
Greece - Greeks
Turkey - Babylonians (?)
Yugoslavia (still neutral in '41) - Iroquois (?)
Spain (also neutral in '41) - Aztecs (?)
Australia & New Zealand - Zulus (?)
Canada (?) - Persians (?)
Latin America (Mexico, Central America, South America) - Indians (?)
Sweden - Egyptians (?)

That should cover just about the entire world, no?

Despite the fact that I'm Canadian, I would submit that Canada, Aus & NZ should all be included in the British Commonwealth. Canada, memorably, took the remarkably independent step of waiting until Sept. 9 to declare war on Germany, and Ottawa's conduct throughout the war was that of an appendage of London (for the most part). Canadian troops were sent off immediately, and intelligence was shared much more freely between Canada and Britain than it was between Commonwealth countries and the US.

[KrazyHorse]

The new "nationality" concept for citizens is going to work very well for this scenario. An example close to home for me would be the reluctance of a large part of the Francophone population of Quebec to fight in "Britain's war".

[Dauphin]

Canada, memorably, took the remarkably independent step of waiting until Sept. 9

We just thought you were slow, eh?



Does anyone know what the units limit is going to be be. As in how many diiferent types. There may be scope for a wide variety of units, to reflect the importance of upgrades, and general technological improvements.

[KrazyHorse]

Well, given that our PM at the time was a sexually repressed anti-semite who consulted the ghost of his dead dog for advice, I think it's remarkable we didn't decide to "pull an Ireland".

[Harlan]

"France should only be France, and not also the Low Countries,
because it wouldn't be so realistic."

Why waste a space on the Low Countries, because they will be gone by the second turn? You also can't leave them blank, so its best to merge them with someone else.

"Italy should be Musso's Italy and those other German allies could be separated to own civs (see my suggestion)."

That takes up too many civs that are better used elsewhere. In fact it probably would be better to merge Italy with Germany, if Civ3 allows unique city production (so Italy units could only be built in Italy and so on).

"Norway and Denmark should also be separated and as I said before, Denmark didn't have any important role in the war."

Denmark will be conquered the very first turn. Again, you can't leave it blank, so it make sense to merge it with the other civ that was conquered the first turn, Norway. In fact, perhaps the Low Countries could go here as well as part of the "about to be steamrolled civ" . That would prevent any cooperation between Belgium and France for the one turn they'd have the opportunity.

"Turkey joined the war few weeks before the end of the war
in Europe and if they would be included, the map would grow
further more."

A good scenario should allow what-if possibilities. One of the most frequently suggested with WW2 is what if Turkey got in the war earlier, which could have happened several different ways.

"Portugal and Persia? AFAIK Portugal didn't take part in the war (can't recall if they fought in 1938 against Franco), and Persia would be out of interest."

Persia is not out of interest - it was very important in the war. In fact, it was invaded and conquered jointly by the Allies and the Soviet Union to secure their oil supplies, and open up a new route to get lend-lease material to the USSR. Ditto with Iraq - it was going to join the Axis, so the Allies conquered it before that process was completed. It was part of Hitler's plan to conquer both areas. Stuff like this means you have to make the map larger, and include the Middle East.

Portugal? In a what if option, it looms very large. Portugal controls the Azores Islands, which were key to controlling the Atlantic. Hitler actually was thinking about attacking Portugal but not Spain, to get those islands. The US forcibly took them over in 1943, but by then Portugal knew better than to join the Axis in response.

"The neutrals could be replaced with just Switzerland, so that the map wouldn't be too wide and the scenario would be more realistic. "

If you cut out the Middle East, then its not much of a WW2 Europe Theater scenario in my opinion. By the way, the Neutrals should include Ireland too - forgot about them.

"Then about the war in the Pacific...
The Allies should be replaced with UK, US, India and Australia.
Why? It would once again make the game more realistic and
then there wouldn't be a too strong civ (compare to the
Coalition in the Gulf War scenario, Civ II - CiC) that could
easily defeat any other civ."

Nope. Why? Cos these countries fought in together in integrated armies. If you have them as separate civs, then if say the Australians take over a city, none of the other allies can use that city to move through, land planes on, and so on. Completely unrealistic.

"Mongolia? Are you trying to pull my leg?"

No. They're the one independent country in the region, and an important buffer zone between China and the USSR. Again, if you allow what if possiblities, than if the USSR got involved earlier in the Japan war, Mongolia would be an important barrier that you just can't leave empty.

[jdd2007]

actually in the game, (or in the 1940s) mongolia could be overrun within MINUTES by either china or ussr, well slight exaggeration. for a WORLD map including europe and asia, here would be my choices-

United Kingdom- British

British Commonwealths- Indians

USA- Americans

USSR- Russians

Germany- Germans

Italy- Romans

Japan- Japanese

South America- Aztecs

France- French

China- Chinese

Low Countries, Norway, Eastern Europe etc. (European Neutrals to conquered by Axis)-

Switzerland, Iberia, Yugoslavia (European Neutrals not conquered by Axis (?)-

Turkey- Babylonians

Independent African Countries- Zulus

cant think of any others, will edit later...

[Jer8m8]

Just a random comment, don't make Brazil neutral. They were an ally and played some part in the war

[monkspider]

One thing we have failed to take into account is that the editor will allow us to create custom civilizations and leader screens. This alone will add greatly to creating the ultimate WW II scenario.

[Staszek]

You need Poland, people. Sadly, to have a great opening and finally battlefield. And then to forget about it for some.... 50 turns. If you want to have a realistic WWII scenario.

[Dr. Nick]

Actually, if you're going to have it in Asia as well you might as well start in 1933(?) with the beginning of the Japanese invasion of China.

[Myrddin]

Or 1938 - Czechoslovakia had a serious military: Hitler's skill in the early years was getting what he wanted without fighting for it