Your SID level experiences

[vmxa1]

Go get em.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Drachen
Getting to this point in the game has become common for me with the GL strategy and I currently feel the GL gambit is stronger than the early war strategy. It’s what comes after that I have found to be problematic. Keeping up in tech through tech theft is pretty much a matter of luck but perhaps with a strong enough economy I’ll be able to recover from the failed theft attempts that are likely to occur. I hope to secure my island while in Republic and then switch to Democracy for its economic advantages. After that I’ll probably switch to Communism for its veteran spies and low war weariness for my inter-island invasions. I do miss having an isthmus connected to a larger land mass but I guess you don’t always get what you want and I’ll play this game out anyway. Being Religious means I’ll have had a total of six turns of anarchy and will have reaped the benefits of the best Governments for my situation at each stage of the game. The GL/Curragh strategy requires Alphabet at Sid so you must choose either Commercial or Seafaring. Multiple Government changes require Religious and I have already briefly pointed out why I feel that’s a strong advantage. War Elephants are powerful, come at just the right time, and don’t require resources. These are the reasons why I choose to play as India at Sid level which is somewhat ironic as I had never played as Gandhi at lower levels because I thought the traits/UU were lacking compared to other combinations. So I obviously disagree with some of the assessments of desirable traits previously posted. So the question becomes for Sid level games what strategy do you attempt, what tribe do you chose to play, and why?

Well I have not have early contacts to do any trading, even with Alpha starts and have not been able to get the GL either.
So I have been forced to do all my own research in most games. I got in a few trades in the current game. I only used stealing in one game so far as it is very expensive.

My take on switching govs is that I only see the point in going to communism. So I am no sold on Religion. Maybe that is a mistake.

If you do not get the GL, a middle age UU is of no value or very low as you will be hard pressed to get that far. I am in year 990AD and have not even got the prereq techs for Chiv.

Building knight type UU's is expensive, so you need lots of cities that are built up.

I am leaning towards going with a Seafaring trait next time, but I am not sure what trait to add to it. I am thinking that the best shot is to go with an all out attempt to build massive troops. I just do not see any builder strat working, without some extraordinary conditions.
But I am on the lookout for someone showing me the way.

[Drachen]

Originally posted by vmxa1

Well I have not have early contacts to do any trading, even with Alpha starts and have not been able to get the GL either.
I just do not see any builder strat working, without some extraordinary conditions.
But I am on the lookout for someone showing me the way.

I found that the GL was hard to get at maps below large because the AI researches faster and gets to literature eventually and usually before the human. I really believe the GL gambit requires larger maps to be consistently successful. Start with Alphabet and research Writing followed by Literature. This will take 100 turns with most of the Literature research done by a Scientist. I’ve never been able to research these techs any faster on a large map. If you use the editor for map generation you’ll see that most large archipelago maps with 70% water will allow a two move Curragh to successfully explore and make contact with at least a few other tribes. I am able to do this consistently and so I think you’ve just had some bad luck with your maps at the settings I laid out. The Alphabet will get you the lower half of the first age techs if traded well. Thus you get your horses, iron, and palace pre-build at 40 to 60 turns into the game. Other than that I agree that 100% builder will be very difficult and you’ll note that I’m at war with the leading civ in my current game. Keep us posted on your game and good luck.

[ErikM]

Originally posted by Drachen
I hope to secure my island while in Republic and then switch to Democracy for its economic advantages. After that I’ll probably switch to Communism for its veteran spies and low war weariness for my inter-island invasions. Being Religious means I’ll have had a total of six turns of anarchy and will have reaped the benefits of the best Governments for my situation at each stage of the game. The GL/Curragh strategy requires Alphabet at Sid so you must choose either Commercial or Seafaring. Multiple Government changes require Religious and I have already briefly pointed out why I feel that’s a strong advantage. War Elephants are powerful, come at just the right time, and don’t require resources. These are the reasons why I choose to play as India at Sid level which is somewhat ironic as I had never played as Gandhi at lower levels because I thought the traits/UU were lacking compared to other combinations. So I obviously disagree with some of the assessments of desirable traits previously posted. So the question becomes for Sid level games what strategy do you attempt, what tribe do you chose to play, and why?

Chieftess on CFC did some testing for income/production under differnt governments in this thread.
Based on this data, incomplete as they may be, it seems to me that republic is still superior to communism income-wise. [I have not tried Communism in C3C though so I'll refrain from further comments]. It is also clear from her table (and this is something that agrees with my experience) is that the difference between Rep and Dem is miniscule.

Thus, I don't really see a point in revolting more than once (to Republic).

I never really liked WEs because they are expensive. They are not very strong and they appear at a point in the game where 70 shields is a lot. That they don't require resources is a doble-edged sword, since you cannot do "disconnect iron-build horses-upgrade to knights" gambit. Building a serious force of them from scratch is likely to be difficult.

So I am unimressed by India overall although of course other factors (map, neighbours, resources) are in the end more important than civ traits. I have posted my ranking of civs somewhere above.

Looks like you are doing alright in your game Drachen. Who is this huge cyan-colored blob?

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Drachen


I found that the GL was hard to get at maps below large because the AI researches faster and gets to literature eventually and usually before the human. I really believe the GL gambit requires larger maps to be consistently successful. Start with Alphabet and research writing followed by Literature. This will take 100 turns with most of the Literature research done by a Scientist. I’ve never been able to research these techs any faster on a large map. If you use the editor for map generation you’ll see that most large archipelago maps with 70% water will allow a two move Curragh to successfully explore and make contact with at least a few other tribes. I am able to do this consistently and so I think you’ve just had some bad luck with your maps at the settings I laid out. The Alphabet will get you the lower half of the first age techs if traded well. Thus you get your horses, iron, and palace pre-build at 40 to 60 turns into the game. Other than that I agree that 100% builder will be very difficult and you’ll note that I’m at war with the leading civ in my current game. Keep us posted on your game and good luck.

I am sure that the limited number of games I have palyed at Sid is too small to be meaningful.

That said, I am just not willing to put up with a huge map. Even a large is mor than I want. I will play one on an occassion, but it is hard.
I have not made the beeline for a GL attempt in most games, so for sure I cannot write it off. The killer is that you cannot expect to get any help from huts with tech. I am lucky if I get one tech in 2 games. I consider it a real break to get gold or even a map.
Of course I have not used expansion traits.

That for the morale support. It could get rough now that I am seeing frigate stacks. So far they have only bombarded one city and I sunk it with cats and a galley. Most stacks doing escorts will stay with the transporter.

I think the inability to find neighbors early was a killer and of course the land was only fair, due to the large amount of jungle and marsh. If I make it to Steam, I should be able to find coal with all the jungles and a fair number of hills amd mountains.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by ErikM


Looks like you are doing alright in your game Drachen. Who is this huge cyan-colored blob?

Probably the Celts.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by ErikM
Based on this data, incomplete as they may be, it seems to me that republic is still superior to communism income-wise. [I have not tried Communism in C3C though so I'll refrain from further comments]. It is also clear from her table (and this is something that agrees with my experience) is that the difference between Rep and Dem is miniscule.

I have not read the thread, but anything not using C3C is not much use for this subject.

REP vs Commie

Hurry Pay - Force
Corruption Nusiance - Communial
WW Low - None
Draft 1 - 2
MP 0 - 4
Support 1/3/4 vs 6/6/6

So I will ignore coruption as it is so dependant, but in a large island map, you must choose communial IMO.

Hurry is going to be so useful at Sid, save the cash for stealing.

WW you got to like none.

Draft bingo.

MP is a dual edge sword. You like to ability to offset the lack of luxs, but you will potentially miss being able to leave cities empty.
I have run into binds already, not being able to move troops that are not needed for defense to places that could use them.

If all others were etter, this one alone is enough to win the day. You will need massive troop counts to win and I doubt that Rep/Dem will be enough with corruption. You are not liekly to get metros to help with support. You can end up with lots of towns that should not have aquas and would not be useful for support counts in Rep/Dem.

Of course you have to get to this form. Best done by stealing.

[vmxa1]

BTW I was just wondering if you have been considering that a map wiht lots of water will yield more harbors or at least coastal towns.

This is what I worry about in that game. Civs that woul have been unable to have many coastl cities will now have lots and be able to build many more ships to send troops with.

I am now seeinng 12-18 ships off my coast at a single turn.
The horror, the horror.

[vmxa1]

1170 Japan give comm for the two civs for peace.
1180 traded lux for luxs and or tech and or gold with all 4 major civs. Now I have Knights.

1190 What Rome drops riflemen and calvs off after just making a lux deal with me???

It is getting very frustrating trying to build up enough to attack England with non stop attacks on me. I ned all my ships and cats to defend still.

[vmxa1]

I should not have continued on with this game when I seen the island I had. It would be fine for Emp or even Demi. All that marsh and jungle just cripplels you.

You have to spend 100's of worker turns to get it cleared. This is turns that should be improving you empires worked tiles.
To do it all, you need so many workers as to break you.

It is not just a question of those tiles not being useful themself, but the tiles that did not get mines, that should have.
In addition you have citizens that die from it.

[ErikM]

told' ya

Whether it is possible to win on Sid is like asking whether you can drive at 50mph through downtown area in a rush hour: it's 10% driving skills and 90% traffic.

Or in other words if map looks bad it is really pointless to try.

[vmxa1]

I got my second GL and made the FP. I just busted two stacks of 4 ships. They ended their turn next to shore, both of them.
Cats in both sites and at least 5 galleys as well. Got me some satisfaction.

The problem is I did not know about the lay of the map until I had played a bit and I could not be sure.

[vmxa1]

Ok at the cossroads now. Crazy Romans, sigh up a buch of embargos on me and the pay me 100 gold for peace.

India ask for MPP and RoP, but declined. Maybe I should have, but I am concerned with RoP rape. There is no reason for them to have troops on my land, it is an island.

I toyed with the idea of signing up and declaring war on england.
Trade Mono for Rep with England and sold Lit for 50 gold to Zulu.

Build embassy with England and see they have about 40 units in the capitol. This is what I mean about crossroads. How will I invade them with that many units in one city?
They are mostly swords and MI.

[vmxa1]

Here is F8 and I have moved up:

[vmxa1]

Units: