New "Ancient Empires" PBEM created

[Straybow]

Houston, we have a problem.

The Greeks have a caravan in limbo, need to apply an unfreeze barter. Barter was from me originally. I could re-apply the barter to a fresh old save to recreate the unfreeze, then apply the unfreeze. Civ2Dip reveals nothing to the recipient except the item(s) being traded.

I also have another unit to hand over, and me applying a barter would be easier than trying to arrange an MP swap with a sub (especially if the sub is me).

This way anybody can sub. I'll post the barters, too, so anyone can verify that I'm not "adding zeros to the check" (as it were).

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Straybow
Houston, we have a problem.

The Greeks have a caravan in limbo, need to apply an unfreeze barter. Barter was from me originally. I could re-apply the barter to a fresh old save to recreate the unfreeze, then apply the unfreeze. Civ2Dip reveals nothing to the recipient except the item(s) being traded.

I also have another unit to hand over, and me applying a barter would be easier than trying to arrange an MP swap with a sub (especially if the sub is me).

This way anybody can sub. I'll post the barters, too, so anyone can verify that I'm not "adding zeros to the check" (as it were).

Translator!!! It's all Greek to me

- Caravan in Limbo?
- Unfreeze barter?
- re-apply the barter?
- recreate the unfreeze?
- then (of course) apply the unfreeze?
- MP swap?

I think I get the part about adding zeros to the check, though.

Straybow, I seem to have "volunteered" to do the greeks, but all the noise about barbarians might have drowned it out. I have no particular desire to do so, however, if you or another sub is more appropriate.

But only SlowThinker has given me any thoughts or input, so far. If you would like me to finish the turn, please e:mail me (RobRoy3@hotmail.com) or otherwise send me your input. If it's something complex, it might be better to wait until Kengel gets back. I had wanted to avoid using CivDip, if possible. But that might not be possible. I currently have no idea what you're talking about.

But, like I said, if you prefer to do it or are more qualified to do it, for whatever reason, I have no objection.

[Peaster]

I didn't understand 100% either, but I think Straybow is offering to solve a technical problem that arose from using civ2dip. That program allowed him to give a unit to the Greeks by sending Kengel a file called a "barter" (in 2630BC I guess). But the unit should not move twice in a turn, so the program "freezes" the unit and creates a new barter file, called an "unfreezing barter", that the Greeks should apply before their next turn (so 2620BC, I guess). If the Greeks forget, the unit is in limbo - not easily unfrozen. He says he could also solve this thru a mulitplayer (MP) session with the sub.

AFAIK you are still the sub. I suppose Straybow will do his civ2dip magic and post a revised save for you to start from. I guess he has to handle the civ2dip part for the Greeks, but IMO that is not a problem.

[SlowThinker]

RobRoy and Peaster, you don't know the terms like 'limbo status' and 'bimbo status' that are lectured in 1st semester of caravan studies??
Is it a joke??

[Zedd]

I was hoping the timing would be better, but I have a out of town trip this weekend that will put me out of civ until monday or tuesday night.

I would have posted earlier but have not been able to get the "submit reply" function to work from my black berry and I have been stuck at work for 12-13 hrs.

[Kull]

Originally posted by SlowThinker We are more and more convinced about some shady intentions of Egypt:

As Egyptian units continue their westward retreat AWAY from Babylon and TOWARD the new Egyptian borders - while Babylonian units move ever westward and begin to enter Egyptian security zones, it's is patently obvious to all as to which leader has aggressive intent, and who seeks naught but security.

* It is very interesting the "Egypt's belief in Babylonian goodwill" ended and a Pharaoh's bad mood originated just in a moment when Babylon manifested no tolerance with secret operations of Egyptian army near Babylonian cities.

Egypt now deeply regrets that it's units were used to safeguard Babylon's southern flank. It is clear that Babylon would have preferred an Assyrian Invasion to arrive from that direction. Sadly it is too late to grant them that wish.

* It is very interesting the 'Euphrates Zone Borders' are not always precise (for example the territory interface between Mari and Dibshiya is shifted towards Dibshiya) but they are very precise concerning the protrusion of a 'no-man's land' inward Babylon. Since no Babylonian units would be allowed to be here, this no-man's land would easily allow a large landing force from Egyptian boats to center of a circle of Babylonian cities.

The explanation behind these borders is clear to any child who can count to six. Red border tiles are those which are closer to Babylonian or Egyptian cities than to a neighbor. White dots indicate tiles which are equidistant, and thus "shared" between the powers. As such, neither side owns them.

As to the ultimate rationale, why it is simplicity itself. This land was neither Egyptian NOR Babylonian, but the property of Assyria. The only items which may be "conquered" or "claimed" are the former Assyrian cities. Everything else is simply territory, whose ownership can be gauged in one of two ways - by agreement (such as those enacted between Pharoah and the trustworthy members of the alliance) or by mathematical division, such as has now occurred between Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian claims for more constitute either greed or a desire to move their forces within striking distance of Egyptian cities. Either motive is readily believable when viewed through the lens of the Great Paranoid Emperor of the Southeast.

[Straybow]

Original barter

Straybow II offers you:
0 gold
His/her entire map
Unit: Caravan at <23,49>
And demands from you Great Leader, Agamemnon
0 gold

It doesn't like dat files, so I changed the extension to sav to make the forum happy. Civ2Dip ignores the extension for barters anyway.

[Straybow]

Unfreeze

Waits at least 1 minute...

[Straybow]

Bartered save

Twiddle, twiddle...

[Straybow]

Straybow II offers you:
0 gold
His/her entire map
Unit: XXXX at (XX,XX)
And demands from you Great Leader, Agamemnon
0 gold

[Straybow]

kengel will need this next turn...

[SlowThinker]

I was unable to correct this text (again and again some parts were doubled ) so I moved it .

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Peaster
...I suppose Straybow will do his civ2dip magic and post a revised save for you to start from. I guess he has to handle the civ2dip part for the Greeks, but IMO that is not a problem.

Still not entirely sure what's going on, but based on this, I downloaded the SI_B2620X file and redid the Greek turn.

I did NOTHING with any other file, and I'll need baby-step instructions if I'm expected to.

I did, however, take into account recommendations e:mailed to me. There are two or three things Kengel might complain about if I guessed wrong, since I generally erred on the side of doing something rather than wasting turns. But worst case scenario is that I just wasted a larger number of turns (I think).

'Course, if the Minoans are away too, I guess there is no hurry. In fact if I read the posts correctly, it looks like the Greek player might be back before the Minoan player, and so could retrieve and redo his turn, if I irritated him too much.

Or do y'all want me or someone else to sub for the Minoans, too.

How strict are your turn-length rules, anyway?

[Straybow]

Looks like you've already posted... did you Ctrl-N at the end?

We say as long as the player lets us know in advance, delays of a day or two are no problem. I missed Zedd's post (d'oh!) so I didn't know he was gone.

[SlowThinker]

Babylonian claims for more constitute either greed or a desire to move their forces within striking distance of Egyptian cities.

The viewport (the whole picture was published on a public notice board several years ago) shows Babylonian land and the original proposition of security zones. You can see it was created so that neutral points allowed to check if there were any dangerous units at strike distance from both Tell Hariri and Dibshiya.

We are repeating - we don't want to expand west from Dibshiya because we think that area is important for security of Mari. Such an expansion would give more security to Dibshiya, but we consider Dibshya a peripheral city that will always have to carry some risk. We think Mari is more important for Egypt than Dibshiya for Babylon and so it deserves more security.
Tell Hariri is in a similar position of a peripheral city like Dibshiya and we won't allow that Egypt expands east from Tell Hariri in an area that is important for Babylonian security.