New "Ancient Empires" PBEM created

[Straybow]

D'oh! I should have realized. I didn't know a unit appeared. I had no idea which river was the Karkeh.

Shield violation: when units are exchanged via Civ2Dip utility the unit stays homed. Those "cross-homed" units aren't actually supported by a shield. So we have to account for the shields that would be required to support foreign units listed for our cities. Usually we just move workers to reduce shields below optimum. Which I forgot to do.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Pharaoh
"The ponderous might of the Babylonian arsenal now turns to face the deadly new threat from the north....."

Is this the only answer to my long proclamation?


RobRoy, I think I am the rules initiator, but I will answer later.

[Peaster]

Sinbad thanks the benign old boatman for the huge bauble and asks for the whereabouts of the booty. It lies in a sealed cave beyond the southern seas. A brazen sheik in a crimson turban bars the entrance. "Been there, done that" boasts Sinbad "Best go back to Ecbatana! With all the mad babbling on in Babylon these days, I better disguise myself as a Babylonian before bolting for the border!"

So... can I barter him to Babylon from Straybow's save (per ST's request), or do I have to wait for my 2620 turn?

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Kull
"The ponderous might of the Babylonian arsenal now turns to face the deadly new threat from the north....."

I believe Kull is referring to the Donald Duck reponse to perceived Persian transgression. I would've said, "Somebody's bow is strung a little to tight..."


Peaster, you can make a barter from anything between your own 2630 save and my save, it will be good for Slo's 2620 turn.

[SlowThinker]

- There's a link to one post with several house rules. Is this an exhaustive list? Or are there others? Did you come up with them based on majority preferences or were they agreed to unanimously? You ban a few exploits that seem relatively harmless (e.g., auto-improve) or even desirable (e.g., rehoming caravans helps reduce micro-management IMHO) but you allow other exploits that are sometimes viewed as abusive or too powerful (e.g., ship chaining, mining hilltop cities).

In Ruleset version 3 there are not included rules that originated later. If you download a 'Show a Printable Version' copy and then find 'rules' after the Rules ver 3 you will find them.
When I joined this PBEM I wondered there are only 3 rules here (I think they are in the 1st post of Kull). I came with a proposition based on rah's rules used in MP forum, some people added remarks. Then we added new rules when needed, we voted only few times, sometimes we talked a bit before we reached a consensus, sometimes somebody (me) came with a proposition and nobody disagreed. Usually only less than one half of people participated in talks about rules. And Steve Clark (the first Greek leader) hated them .
I agree with you rehoming caravans is not bad, but within 72h you can accomplish some micro-management.

- Are there some house rules or agreements on Wonders? I would think with the kind of units, technology and money floating around, there'd be more Wonders built.

No house rules. But it is not felicitous to announce 5 wonders in one turn (Kull will explain more details).
They are not very cheap in this scenario and so IMO their value is usually not greater than value of cities. And caravans are very rewarding so they are usually the best investment.

- Where can I find the diplomacy utility that I see referenced several times?

In my signature.

- I took the liberty of downloading a recent turn. How have many of you arranged it so that cities can support foreign units? Is this a feature of the diplomacy utliity? And why is this desirable? Seems like it might be more trouble than its worth.

Yes, a feature of CivDip.
CivDip doesn't change home city of a unit, and this is good because you can't use CivDip for an easy unit rehoming (in case of a war for example).
Unfortunately Civ2 doesn't charge foreign units by a shield support.

- What are y'all planning to do with Mitanni?

Do you want to play them

- I assume it's bad form to view the other players' maps, etc. But do you just rely on an honor system? Related to that is there any kind of policing or periodic checking to make sure no one has made any egregious mistakes or stooped to outright cheating?

Many ways of cheating are undetectable and so we have to rely on an honor system. Also a man would have to be quite stupid to decide to cheat, because he would lose the entertainment and thrill from the game.

But there were also different opinions in the PBEM world: some people declared cheating is always detectable and you will be caught if you are cheating. Once I noted a way how to look at opponent's passworded map (I think almost everybody knows it) in Civfanatics PBEM forum. My post were deleted, it was replaced by a statement 'only a genius can do that', I was banned, then a flame started, a poll in which my fraction got only about 20% votes. Later the thread was deleted.
But that fraction is dead now so I can say it: you need no password if you open in a singleplayer mode.

- I saw a thread that someone was trying to start a new SoG PBEM. Has this fallen by the wayside?

We didn't get enough people so far. (IMO 7 is desirable)

[Peaster]

OK. I was mainly concerned about the legality of such a barter, but I guess no one sees a problem with it.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Peaster
A no-scouting policy ? Maybe we need to talk....

I wanted to say scouting is performed after an approval.

[Kull]

Originally posted by Straybow
D'oh! I should have realized. I didn't know a unit appeared. I had no idea which river was the Karkeh.

Speaking of rules, a very long time ago.....probably honest-to-god human years......we stated that the privilege of playing first did not entitle the holder to sole knowledge of the Event Messages. These must be shared with all the other players.

It's quite likely that Emperor Straybow wasn't even present when this rule was passed, so he cannot be held responsible for not adhering to it.

And it's very good to see you RobRoy....this game was played with the SoG version that you Fathered - Barbarian Wrath - but alas it fails to function in PBEM.

Edit: Did some checking - it was post #522, page 18, 7/7/03.

[Straybow]

Sorry, didn't know they were public. I have always passed messages on to the kingdom for whom the message was intended: Jason and the Argonauts a couple centuries ago to the Greeks, vague memory of another (or maybe that was a solo game), and this one to the Persians.

[Peaster]

Argonauts ? There is an exile community of Argonauts in northern Persia, who have been complaining for years about reparations for something or another, but no word from any "Jason" or the Greek King.

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
Do you want to play them

no cities, no money, little tech, 2 settlers, and a spearman?!

I may be a glutton for punishment, but not that much.

But it seems a shame not to do something with them. I'm sure if you juice them up a bit, you could find a buyer.

Hey, why don't you give them a nice barbarian horde or two and make them into the barbarians, since your "wrath" doesn't seem to be working. 100 Bronze Infantry/Battering Rams, and a few Sea Peoples might make them worth playing, despite their otherwise hopeless position. Or would you already have advanced to the next stage...what is it Iron Infantry and Catapults?

Are the barbarians not working at all? Or are they still appearing with the increased frequency, but just not generating the huge land hordes? I ask, because I'd observed that an island position for the (a?) human player sometimes seemed to limit the land hordes to 2-4 units instead of 100+ units. It wasn't consistent though.

Have barbies always been bugged or just recently (i.e,. since the fall of Assyria)? I have a vague recollection that the Industrialization tech is one of those that effects barbie appearance, but I can't remember exactly what it does. And I think Industrialization is the Assyrian Architecture tech in SoG, IIRC.

I'm probably not a good candidate for a regular player, anyway, my free time runs feast to famine. I have a plethora right now, so if you guys have a substitute list, please add me to it (if you don't mind a sub who'll have to be reminded about the process a bit...it's been about three years since I did any PBEM CivII).

[SlowThinker]

bab 2620

Egypt says nothing ... hmm...

Masons in Babylon are happy, but Secretary of the Treasury is narked: Zibbar builds walls - against brigands and ... and ... just brigands.
We are very interesed if Pharaoh, so much frightened from the threat from East, will order to spend Egyptian money in walls in Tell Hariri.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Straybow
Peaster, you can make a barter from anything between your own 2630 save and my save, it will be good for Slo's 2620 turn.

Except it doesn't work next turn. The barter was obsolete.
A barter would work from a Minoan save only.

[Kull]

Originally posted by RobRoy
Hey, why don't you give them a nice barbarian horde or two and make them into the barbarians, since your "wrath" doesn't seem to be working. 100 Bronze Infantry/Battering Rams, and a few Sea Peoples might make them worth playing, despite their otherwise hopeless position. Or would you already have advanced to the next stage...what is it Iron Infantry and Catapults?

Better yet, we should give you the last save game and let you hex-edit in about five massive 100+ each Barbarian hordes - but make 'em the full deal, including Scythians, Desert Tribes, C4s, Iron Infantry, Horsearchers, etc.

Are the barbarians not working at all? Or are they still appearing with the increased frequency, but just not generating the huge land hordes? I ask, because I'd observed that an island position for the (a?) human player sometimes seemed to limit the land hordes to 2-4 units instead of 100+ units. It wasn't consistent though.

They never appeared spontaneously, although you could get them to spawn from huts. To bad, as it would have really added a nice wild card to the game.

Have barbies always been bugged or just recently (i.e,. since the fall of Assyria)? I have a vague recollection that the Industrialization tech is one of those that effects barbie appearance, but I can't remember exactly what it does. And I think Industrialization is the Assyrian Architecture tech in SoG, IIRC.

Bugged from the get-go. I think it's something about the internet game that kills 'em. The Wrath Hex-edit just reverts back to "Prince" or something. Although I don't believe we ever tested to see if we could revert it to Wrath and have it STAY there. If you are willing to test that out, it would be nice info to have.

I'm probably not a good candidate for a regular player, anyway, my free time runs feast to famine. I have a plethora right now, so if you guys have a substitute list, please add me to it (if you don't mind a sub who'll have to be reminded about the process a bit...it's been about three years since I did any PBEM CivII).

That's good to know.

[Straybow]

Wrath is a hex-edit? I thought it was Game.txt file edit... Slo said a hex editor reveals that the setting is still Wrath, but something else must be preventing the hordes from appearing.

I, for one, am glad. I tried a solo game at Wrath and here's what I got (about 5-10 turns between each frame):