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  • Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
    Do you happen to have an older version? You say it was much tougher even though the heroes had more def points. I'm curios of the differences.
    No, not really much point. Mordor's numbers will be increased in the next version and the Witch-king (winged version), winged Nazgul and Grond will receive slight stat improvements.

    Thanks for posting the saves. I've just checked the @INITFLAG event in games 40 and 50 using a hex editor. I don't see anything unusual in those.
    Catfish's Cave - Resources for Civ2: Test of Time | Test of Time FAQ | War of the Ring scenario

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    • Originally posted by Catfish View Post
      Mordor's numbers will be increased in the next version and the Witch-king (winged version), winged Nazgul and Grond will receive slight stat improvements.
      Just careful on Lorien since they took hits from winged Nazgul. Looking forward to that.

      Originally posted by Catfish View Post
      Thanks for posting the saves. I've just checked the @INITFLAG event in games 40 and 50 using a hex editor. I don't see anything unusual in those.
      Those were from my second game. Third game was not so relevant as I new what to expect and when to expect so I fared better. I believe turn 90 is from the third game. Of course I erred even in the third game, mostly because I lost
      (too) many knights on sorties so I had alot of spearmen but the conquering campaign was a bit slow.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
        Just careful on Lorien since they took hits from winged Nazgul. Looking forward to that.
        I believe that's more likely when you have Gandalf and Legolas in your front lines. Lorien is tough to crack, but it has fallen to Mordor in some of my earlier play-tests. This destroys city.
        Catfish's Cave - Resources for Civ2: Test of Time | Test of Time FAQ | War of the Ring scenario

        Comment


        • Any chance you might have tested some changes to WotR? Need any help? I would also like some help on some topics like hex-editing and masks (I think I got flags but still can't figure if there is a connection between the mask no. say 0c00402m.... and some flags).
          Btw, what hex editor programme do you use? I think I'd need one if I were to place some rivers AFTER the game started. Right now I'm editing one of my old MGE scenarios and trying to convert it to civ2ToT while adding some changes (like the multimap and portals) I've also spent a little time understanding how the sprites work. Civ2ToT really didn't get enough credit for its worth, it's a major flavour over MGE and the events give you a lot more freedom, making the game more fun than even civ 3. The AI is better also.

          Also, would you consider it compelling enough for the player to go to Barrow Downs if Frodo was denied entrance on the Lower Deeps prior to that (no Bree, Rivendell or Emyn Muil). Just a thought.
          Last edited by the Monarch; July 16, 2010, 11:24.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
            Any chance you might have tested some changes to WotR? Need any help?
            Made changes, haven't tested. I'll at least attempt to test some of it before posting here. Here's a list of the main changes:
            • The Balrog: HP -1, movement -2, alpine.
            • Winged Nazgul, Theoden and Eomer: +1 A.
            • Grond: +2 D.
            • Winged Nazgul Lord: +2 A, +1 D.
            • Saruman: +2 A.
            • Increased the probability of ologs, catapults and siege towers spawning in Minas Morgul.
            • Increased the number of trolls, ologs, uruks, catapults and siege towers created when Mordor mobilises.
            • Mordor receives two extra Mumaks when it mobilises.
            • Delayed by 5 turns the appearance of the Winged Nazgul Lord when Mordor mobilises.
            • Contact in the High Pass now adds 3 points to Mordor's mobilisation counter.
            • Negotiations with Isengard are no longer possible once it becomes mobilised.
            • Fixed (hopefully) Isengard providing tribute to Gondor. It does this when it's numerically weak.
            • Reduced the amount of gold plundered when Isengard is captured. The city is now less than 10% of Isengard's (the tribe) total population; previously 33%.
            • Changed tile (155,173) to forest and added a farm to the Pelennor Fields to compensate for food decrease in Osgiliath.
            • Added blockers in Moria to reduce the chance of Mordor units blocking the stairs to the Lower Deeps and to confine the Balrog until the arrival of the Fellowship at Durin's Door.
            • Changed timing of phases 2 and 3 of Mordor's mobilisation schedule.
            • +1 Orc Garrison in Isengard.
            • Capped hobbit hero defence values at 3 to reduce the probability of them defending stacks. Adjusted their remaining stats, plus the stats for the Barrow-wights, Shelob and Gollum.

            Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
            I would also like some help on some topics like hex-editing and masks (I think I got flags but still can't figure if there is a connection between the mask no. say 0c00402m.... and some flags).
            I don't follow. A (bit)mask simply allows you to check or set the bit states for up to 32 flags at once. The mask value can be entered as either binary (0b prefix) or hexadecimal (0x prefix). There are a couple of articles (here and here) on tribe flags over at the Cradle of Civilization site. Also, read macro.txt and Mercator's comments in this thread about turning flags off - very important. Note also that the Count parameter is buggy; it works exactly the same as Threshold. The reason I use it in the scenario is for readability: when the value of the parameter equals the number of flags checked in the mask. When I was learning ToT events, I used the Midgard scenario as a guide.

            Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
            Btw, what hex editor programme do you use?
            AXE (main site is down), but there are alternatives, eg, Frhed. The ToT 1.1 SAV/SCN file format can be found here.

            Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
            I think I'd need one if I were to place some rivers AFTER the game started.
            I use a hex editor in combination with an Excel spreadsheet to add/remove rivers. I enter the tile co-ordinates in the spreadsheet and it returns the offsets.

            Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
            Civ2ToT really didn't get enough credit for its worth, it's a major flavour over MGE and the events give you a lot more freedom, making the game more fun than even civ 3. The AI is better also.
            I think the AI is pretty much the same in both versions. The WotR map is not an easy one for the AI: it's large, contains plenty of terrain barriers and has a very low city density. I'd say there are three main reasons why it works:
            1. Extra events space in ToT allows extra MoveUnit events. These can also be tied to the condition of various flags. In addition, MoveUnit and CreateUnit events are staggered in such a way that the AI is always piling in to the front lines.
            2. Different theatres use different landmass indices to prevent land units from targeting opposing forces in (virtually) unreachable locations, eg, the wrong side of natural barriers. Believe me, they will do this. In really early versions I had units piling up against mountain ranges and major rivers. This method proved so effective that I was able to dispense with many MoveUnit events. The drawback is it's a pain to implement. I doubt I'll ever see it used in another scenario.
            3. High attack value to defence value ratios keep the AI aggressive.

            Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
            Also, would you consider it compelling enough for the player to go to Barrow Downs if Frodo was denied entrance on the Lower Deeps prior to that (no Bree, Rivendell or Emyn Muil). Just a thought.
            That would kinda make it essential. I like to give players some choice. Mind you, you'd be lucky to complete the Quest of Mt Doom without upgrading Sam.
            Catfish's Cave - Resources for Civ2: Test of Time | Test of Time FAQ | War of the Ring scenario

            Comment


            • All changes seem great. I'd add something though (as usual ). The Balrog will still make away with Gandalf on Durin's Bridge unless he has time to fortify. Why not raise def bonus to 200% instead of 150%. HP decrease would be optional. Also, wouldn't you find it more apropriate for the Mumaks to be delayed as well? And finally, did you consider changing tile 69,69 to grassland/plains? The problem is that, if one hobbit legs behind there is a chance a Nazgul will kill him coming from the south. That would make for the same odds of safety like it would for the player to take the main road to Bree... too risky.

              Thanx alot for the info on masks, I'll check it out for sure. The macro text was a bit laconic on this.

              Originally posted by Catfish View Post
              I think the AI is pretty much the same in both versions. The WotR map is not an easy one for the AI: it's large, contains plenty of terrain barriers and has a very low city density.
              Precisely. I particularly like as they tend to NOT end their turn next to my cities as if they feared the catapults inside which they never did in MGE. And the "go to" for both human and AI has been greatly improved to calculate roads and rough terrain which is a good change also.

              Originally posted by Catfish View Post
              That would kinda make it essential. I like to give players some choice. Mind you, you'd be lucky to complete the Quest of Mt Doom without upgrading Sam.
              Well, I remember the first time I had a go I skipped barrow-downs by mistake (it's not visible at game start like Bree or Rivendell). By the time I returned with Sam, it was empty and I had to restart. Not beeing able to go to Bree prior to that would actually have been helpful since it would make the choice more of a player's choice. Without an upgraded Sam I doubt you could make it past Cirith Ungol and Sammath Naur. It would be much annoying to find out you didn't stand a chance AFTER playing over half the game. In this version, the player would be able to chose if he skipped the Barrow Downs as the events generate the Fellowship automatically if Frodo doesn't reach Rivendell in time. Aragorn could be created in the same way at, say, Weathertop and by Emyn Muil, Frodo could get the "knowledge" to go to the lower deeps since Gollum is essential. Second time I almost missed Emyn Muil too as it was off the route to the marshes. This way, Sam would still be upgraded but Frodo wouldn't (he'd never get the mithril upgrade). You could also throw in 50 gold or so for plundering the barrow's treasure. I guess that would make it for incentives without crippling the player beyond repair in the latest stages. I doubt that they couldn't have been provided with swords in Rivendell if they needed them anyway :P.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                I don't follow. A (bit)mask simply allows you to check or set the bit states for up to 32 flags at once. The mask value can be entered as either binary (0b prefix) or hexadecimal (0x prefix).
                Now I get it. I was looking for binary flags while you were using hex conversions to save up space... Just didn't see the connection. Thnx for clearing that up. I'm feeling like decoding the Enigma here

                Comment


                • Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                  The Balrog will still make away with Gandalf on Durin's Bridge unless he has time to fortify. Why not raise def bonus to 200% instead of 150%. HP decrease would be optional.
                  I haven't tested the revised Moria area yet.

                  Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                  Also, wouldn't you find it more apropriate for the Mumaks to be delayed as well?
                  The one-off mumaks for Mordor are piggy-backed on another event to save space, so I'd need a good reason.

                  Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                  And finally, did you consider changing tile 69,69 to grassland/plains? The problem is that, if one hobbit legs behind there is a chance a Nazgul will kill him coming from the south. That would make for the same odds of safety like it would for the player to take the main road to Bree... too risky.
                  I considered it. Not a large enough problem to go hacking paths through the Old Forest at the hobbits' convenience. I think my hobbits have only been attacked once by Nazgul in the Old Forest. Maybe it's because I normally cut through directly from Buckland instead of following the river south to (65,69) before heading east. If that takes a little longer due to the random nature of fractional movement, then so be it. I'd be more inclined to move the Nazgul spawn locations. Anyway, try that route and see what happens. Mercator reported Nazgul behaviour at odds with my results earlier in the thread.

                  Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                  Well, I remember the first time I had a go I skipped barrow-downs by mistake (it's not visible at game start like Bree or Rivendell). By the time I returned with Sam, it was empty and I had to restart.
                  I have to empty it; several other units capable of plundering the barrow will become available to the player. I'm actually quite limited in my inter-map transport options.

                  Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                  Not beeing able to go to Bree prior to that would actually have been helpful since it would make the choice more of a player's choice.
                  I don't see how dictating the order of events gives a player more of a choice.

                  Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                  Without an upgraded Sam I doubt you could make it past Cirith Ungol and Sammath Naur.
                  It's not impossible, but you need luck with Shelob. The Gollum unit in the Sammath Naur is a missile; he only makes one attack. If you send in Sam first, he can't get Frodo.

                  Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                  It would be much annoying to find out you didn't stand a chance AFTER playing over half the game.
                  I don't agree that you don't stand a chance, after all, I've actually achieved victory after having lost Frodo. It just wasn't as comprehensive as when I destroyed the Ring with Frodo. Add to that my previous point.

                  Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                  In this version, the player would be able to chose if he skipped the Barrow Downs as the events generate the Fellowship automatically if Frodo doesn't reach Rivendell in time. Aragorn could be created in the same way at, say, Weathertop and by Emyn Muil, Frodo could get the "knowledge" to go to the lower deeps since Gollum is essential. Second time I almost missed Emyn Muil too as it was off the route to the marshes. This way, Sam would still be upgraded but Frodo wouldn't (he'd never get the mithril upgrade). You could also throw in 50 gold or so for plundering the barrow's treasure. I guess that would make it for incentives without crippling the player beyond repair in the latest stages. I doubt that they couldn't have been provided with swords in Rivendell if they needed them anyway :P.
                  I marked these locations on the map in the Readme file for a reason. It's up to the player to find them. I could make the locations visible at the start of the game, but they're virtually handed to you on a plate anyway. Yes, I'm quite sure the hobbits could have been equipped in Rivendell, but there's only so much you can cram into 104 kB of memory. If I'd had players complaining to me about being inconvenienced by the Barrow-downs at the time of release, I would've reworked it. So far, you're the only one.

                  Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                  Now I get it. I was looking for binary flags while you were using hex conversions to save up space...
                  I did it because it's easier to see differences at a glance. Mask notation does not affect memory space.
                  Catfish's Cave - Resources for Civ2: Test of Time | Test of Time FAQ | War of the Ring scenario

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                    The one-off mumaks for Mordor are piggy-backed on another event to save space, so I'd need a good reason.
                    Only that they are, like the Nazgul Lord, more of a threat if you do not know when (or where) they're coming and so, when to expect them. They almost changed the outcome of the battle for Minas Tirith whereas you are bound to encounter them in front to Osgiliath, the first turn Mordor mobilizes (for normal mobilization, I guess, I haven't had earlier mobilizations in any of my games). So you'll breathe a lot easier once you know they're gone for good and get your heroes to defend the city without any fear of losing them. It's pretty straightforward until Grond.

                    Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                    I considered it. Not a large enough problem to go hacking paths through the Old Forest at the hobbits' convenience. I think my hobbits have only been attacked once by Nazgul in the Old Forest. Maybe it's because I normally cut through directly from Buckland instead of following the river south to (65,69) before heading east.
                    I guess that could be ok. A lot more time than needed to go by the road to Bree (3 or 4 more turns) but safer (if you say you've tested it, I haven't yet).

                    Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                    I have to empty it; several other units capable of plundering the barrow will become available to the player. I'm actually quite limited in my inter-map transport options.
                    No argument as to why you did it. My course of events in the first game would have been strange but, by the time I realized I skipped the barrow-downs, it was too late. I just haven't noted down the locations from the readme, expected portals to be visible all the time and events to be active regardless of their real chronological order in the book.

                    Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                    I don't see how dictating the order of events gives a player more of a choice.

                    ...Yes, I'm quite sure the hobbits could have been equipped in Rivendell, but there's only so much you can cram into 104 kB of memory. If I'd had players complaining to me about being inconvenienced by the Barrow-downs at the time of release, I would've reworked it. So far, you're the only one.
                    You kinda do dictate the order of events (whether you wanted to or not) anyway (see above). I was just implying that, since I skipped it because I didn't see it I didn't have much choice. Whereas if I couldn't have gone to Bree prior to that, I would have suspected something was wrong so chances were I'd have found it. Rivendell activates by itself eventually so the choice I'm proposing would be whether to upgrade Frodo and get a minor sum of money (50 gold) or skip the Barrow Downs, Bree and Rivendell but lose the mithril upgrade and get all your Fellowship heroes (a lot) later. You would still start with the upgraded (only) version of Sam, Merry and Pippin. This is a choice whereas, in my agenda, skipping Barrow Downs and ending up with the weak versions of Sam, Merry and Pippin is not much of a choice. Again, it is a debate whether it's worth it to free up some unit slots from the hobbits and some much needed event triggers (Sam Gamgee, Merry Brandybuck and Pippin Took all take a lot of event slots).

                    From our earlier discussions I was led to believe you didn't favour this (only) because you didn't want to impose Barrow Downs on the player, you wanted to give him a choice whether to go down or not, but you didn't want to make him skip it by default either. So I was trying to find a choice but with less effort.

                    So, as to sum up, I'm not complaining all that much about the current Barrow Downs in itself, all I'm complaining is that you want to use 3 unit slots and a lot of event space to enforce a choice that nobody wouldn't take (the real choice, as it stands, is whether to research Bombardil or not, not whether to go to the Barrow Downs or not), when you could put those resources to a much better use by making things simpler. But it's not all that important, it was, as I said, just a thought.



                    Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                    It's not impossible, but you need luck with Shelob. The Gollum unit in the Sammath Naur is a missile; he only makes one attack. If you send in Sam first, he can't get Frodo.
                    Merry and Pippin are also vulnerable. Moria could spell trouble too, I think nobody would take that chance, would they?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                      Only that they are, like the Nazgul Lord, more of a threat if you do not know when (or where) they're coming and so, when to expect them. They almost changed the outcome of the battle for Minas Tirith whereas you are bound to encounter them in front to Osgiliath, the first turn Mordor mobilizes (for normal mobilization, I guess, I haven't had earlier mobilizations in any of my games). So you'll breathe a lot easier once you know they're gone for good and get your heroes to defend the city without any fear of losing them. It's pretty straightforward until Grond.
                      Far more is made of the mumakil's role in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in the film than in the book. Ologs and others in the right numbers can substitute.

                      Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                      You kinda do dictate the order of events (whether you wanted to or not) anyway (see above). I was just implying that, since I skipped it because I didn't see it I didn't have much choice. Whereas if I couldn't have gone to Bree prior to that, I would have suspected something was wrong so chances were I'd have found it. Rivendell activates by itself eventually so the choice I'm proposing would be whether to upgrade Frodo and get a minor sum of money (50 gold) or skip the Barrow Downs, Bree and Rivendell but lose the mithril upgrade and get all your Fellowship heroes (a lot) later. You would still start with the upgraded (only) version of Sam, Merry and Pippin. This is a choice whereas, in my agenda, skipping Barrow Downs and ending up with the weak versions of Sam, Merry and Pippin is not much of a choice. Again, it is a debate whether it's worth it to free up some unit slots from the hobbits and some much needed event triggers (Sam Gamgee, Merry Brandybuck and Pippin Took all take a lot of event slots).
                      Already been over this. You seem to think the scenario is impossible if you skip the Barrow-mound; it's not.

                      Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                      Merry and Pippin are also vulnerable.
                      The main function of Merry and Pippin is to mobilise the Ents. There are two of them, so you've got two chances if they're not stacked. In addition, they each receive one 'get out of jail free' card vs Isengard once the Fellowship has visited Lorien. Their upgrades are useful, but not essential.

                      Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                      Moria could spell trouble too, I think nobody would take that chance, would they?
                      Meaning? You believe the High Pass is still a better option for everyone but Gandalf?
                      Catfish's Cave - Resources for Civ2: Test of Time | Test of Time FAQ | War of the Ring scenario

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                        Far more is made of the mumakil's role in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in the film than in the book. Ologs and others in the right numbers can substitute.
                        True. Just didn't want them to be too minor of a threat or just decorative. They, together with the Ologs are the best incentive for the player to retreat to Minas Tirith where the def bonus counts. I'd add a random respawn of some 4 mumaks once the first one bites the dust. Say random 10 turn delay.

                        Speaking of mumaks, I've been away for a couple of days and decided to do some testing (my last attempt as, even though one of the greatest scenarios, my interest becomes to finally settle). I'd like to test the changes you've made, if that's alright with you and you think it helps.

                        I've been trying to test some features I haven't encountered in my first games. First of all, let me say there is no way you can be 100% sure the Nazguls won't find you. It's better to just send Frodo on the road to Bree if you don't encounter a Nazgul on tile 72,60. Even if you do, you can send some decoys which will use up his movement. Once in Bree, at least he's safe. Worst case scenario is that a Nazgul blocks the way on tile 65,65 and forces you to take the Old Forest road with all of them anyway. The rest of the hobbits I usually send through the woods but I was particularly unhappy on this occasion that, not only was the road blocked and I was forced to go through the forest with all 4 hobbits stacked but, even though I took the road directly east of Buckland, the second wave of Nazguls came from the south and mopped up the forest, even ending up on Barrow-mound (see pic). It was as if a human was controlling them and you really don't stand a chance against them even on rough terrain and with vet hobbits as escort. The nice thing was I finally lost Osgiliath (on turn 3 or 4) to some angry mumaks . Minas Tirith would have probably followed in a turn or two...

                        Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                        Already been over this. You seem to think the scenario is impossible if you skip the Barrow-mound; it's not.
                        I'll grant you that, no more argument. I don't think it's impossible, just a lot more risky for Sam, especially. I liked the flavor mountains more than that choice, though. I guess it's my personal choice. I still think going directly east of Buckland isn't 100% sure and will cost you a lot more turns.

                        Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                        The main function of Merry and Pippin is to mobilise the Ents. There are two of them, so you've got two chances if they're not stacked. In addition, they each receive one 'get out of jail free' card vs Isengard once the Fellowship has visited Lorien. Their upgrades are useful, but not essential.
                        Yes, about that 'get out of jail free' card, is it just me or is there some fault in the events (flag 20 and 19 for Isengard for Merry and Pippin (masks 80030 and 8000c both refer to the same flag 19?). It seems they will be respawn if they are captured together but not separatelly. Also, in Moria, the delayed eye orcs never appeared for me, only the trolls. I wonder why? Does it happen to you too?

                        Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                        Meaning? You believe the High Pass is still a better option for everyone but Gandalf?
                        No, I never take the High Pass out of respect for the book. Not that I didn't think it'd be easier or faster. Perhaps the 3 point mobilization would do it, I never tested it as it is with 2. Those points speed up mobilization for Mordor even if they don't reach the threshold of 5? Also, have you thought about Durin's Bridge? 62% chance the Balrog will waste Gandalf if not fortified. That will leave him with plenty of Hp's (20 - 40%) so he might waste Boromir too (in one test). You'd stand a better chance attacking him (51%). Is that ok with you?
                        Attached Files

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                        • Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                          First of all, let me say there is no way you can be 100% sure the Nazguls won't find you. It's better to just send Frodo on the road to Bree if you don't encounter a Nazgul on tile 72,60. Even if you do, you can send some decoys which will use up his movement. Once in Bree, at least he's safe. Worst case scenario is that a Nazgul blocks the way on tile 65,65 and forces you to take the Old Forest road with all of them anyway. The rest of the hobbits I usually send through the woods but I was particularly unhappy on this occasion that, not only was the road blocked and I was forced to go through the forest with all 4 hobbits stacked but, even though I took the road directly east of Buckland, the second wave of Nazguls came from the south and mopped up the forest, even ending up on Barrow-mound (see pic).
                          I'll look into it. I don't recall encountering that behaviour very often. Like I said earlier, Mercator was experiencing Nazgul behaviour contrary to that in my games. That was something I couldn't test for or explain.

                          Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                          The nice thing was I finally lost Osgiliath (on turn 3 or 4) to some angry mumaks . Minas Tirith would have probably followed in a turn or two...
                          So what was the difference? It sounded like you were holding Osgiliath comfortably in your earlier games. It maybe impossible to hold Minas Tirith in the next version. I don't want that either.

                          Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                          I don't think it's impossible, just a lot more risky for Sam, especially. I liked the flavor mountains more than that choice, though. I guess it's my personal choice.
                          At this stage I'm more concerned with fixing what's broken, so trying to convince me to make significant gameplay changes is going to be like getting blood from a stone. You're one-and-a-half years too late, I'm afraid. Balancing the scenario is hard enough; that's never going to be perfect - and different players will have different opinions. I could be here tweaking this scenario until the cows come home.

                          Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                          Yes, about that 'get out of jail free' card, is it just me or is there some fault in the events (flag 20 and 19 for Isengard for Merry and Pippin (masks 80030 and 8000c both refer to the same flag 19?). It seems they will be respawn if they are captured together but not separatelly.
                          Yep, it should be 0x100030 for Pippin (line 444). Well spotted . As it stands, Pippin will only escape if Merry is also captured. Pippin should be using flag 20.

                          Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                          Also, in Moria, the delayed eye orcs never appeared for me, only the trolls. I wonder why? Does it happen to you too?
                          Yep, got it. Not entirely my fault this time. It's a ToT map parameter bug. It's caused by the ChangeTerrain action in the previous event (the one with the trolls). Its map parameter value is messing with the spawn locations in the following CreateUnit event. Switching the order of those two events in the events file will fix it. The extra orcs were a late addition to the scenario and weren't properly tested (you can blame me for that). Of course, that's going to make Moria a little tougher, so that'll need to be balanced out.

                          Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                          Those points speed up mobilization for Mordor even if they don't reach the threshold of 5?
                          No, they only move you closer to the threshold (of 4). One mistake from the Fellowship will be enough to put Sauron on alert and trip Mordor's mobilisation flag.

                          Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                          Also, have you thought about Durin's Bridge? 62% chance the Balrog will waste Gandalf if not fortified. That will leave him with plenty of Hp's (20 - 40%) so he might waste Boromir too (in one test). You'd stand a better chance attacking him (51%). Is that ok with you?
                          Haven't touched it yet.
                          Catfish's Cave - Resources for Civ2: Test of Time | Test of Time FAQ | War of the Ring scenario

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                            Mercator was experiencing Nazgul behaviour contrary to that in my games. That was something I couldn't test for or explain.
                            Well, it hasn't happened often. It seems arbitrary, probably triggered by the fact that a fortified vet hobbit on a river was seen as a blocker towards Buckland and made the Nazgul take a detour. If you happen to lose Frodo on turn 2 or 3, I'm sure you can restart. Btw, how did you manage to hide Nature's cities on map 0 and move through them?

                            Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                            So what was the difference? It sounded like you were holding Osgiliath comfortably in your earlier games. It maybe impossible to hold Minas Tirith in the next version. I don't want that either.
                            Haha, 47 turns worth of difference. killing Frodo sent them rampaging and you don't stand a chance.

                            Originally posted by Catfish View Post
                            At this stage I'm more concerned with fixing what's broken, so trying to convince me to make significant gameplay changes is going to be like getting blood from a stone. You're one-and-a-half years too late, I'm afraid. Balancing the scenario is hard enough; that's never going to be perfect - and different players will have different opinions. I could be here tweaking this scenario until the cows come home.
                            I understand how you feel. I'm willing to help since my enthusiasm is higher as it's still a new game for me. I want to implement the "flavor" stuff without affecting the balance if you agree to it. I take it as an exercise in modding, a tutorial for civ2ToT (I made a static.spr and was happy to see it work with masks for civspecific colors). Since I implemented it for my game, I could share and send you a zip with my changes once they are finished if you deem them ok. It's not going to be perfect but, possibly (even more) better looking. Since it's already a great work, I like adding my efforts to it. Since you (probably) plan to release a patch with the changes you listed, it's just as easy to work on this save anyway. I've tried to implement some of the changes you listed (but not all). Also there is a describe.txt to go with the changes.

                            And one last question how come any new founded city is visible to everyone?
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                            • And the units.bmp for units which override the static.spr
                              I also have a question: is flag 15 free for Gondor? Or could you tell me of another flag for Gondor not in use?
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                              Last edited by the Monarch; July 26, 2010, 09:12.

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                              • Updates in the 'official' version will address major imbalances, exploits and bugs, ie, it will be a maintenance release.

                                Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                                Btw, how did you manage to hide Nature's cities on map 0 and move through them?
                                Hex editing.

                                Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                                And one last question how come any new founded city is visible to everyone?
                                The Apollo Program wonder (The Two Watchers in Cirith Ungol).

                                Originally posted by the Monarch View Post
                                I also have a question: is flag 15 free for Gondor? Or could you tell me of another flag for Gondor not in use?
                                There are no available Gondor flags. Flag 15 is reserved for Mordor. The state of the continuous modifier for flag 15 is determined by the Mordor flag which turns off during the course of the scenario.
                                Catfish's Cave - Resources for Civ2: Test of Time | Test of Time FAQ | War of the Ring scenario

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