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Forgot to attach. DUH!
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Excerpts from the Manual of the Civilization Fanatic :
Money can buy happiness, just raise the luxury rate to 50%.
Money is not the root of all evil, it is the root of great empires. -
I'm in April '44. The allies have taken the whole of North Africa and are battling their way up in Italy. I'm not sure if it is because I'm now playing on deity, but it was a hard fight indeed in Italy. But it was remarkable to see that my balkan partisans encountered a very large italian army there (near Belgrade), that probably have been put to better use on the mainland italy.
I have massed a giant force in the south of England. Over a 100 units are standing by to pour into France at D-Day. In hindsight I should have produced more airpower, but the current force will do just fine.
On Agricolas' tech and new units remarks: I agree that for some units the extra research and production costs are not always worth it. The Sexton has hardly an advantage over the standard tank destroyer. But I'm a sucker for the newest toys, so I'm putting in the extra effort anyway.
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WINTER WOES
The following cities will unavoidably starve in the winter of 1941-1942 and decrease in size by 1-3.
Gorky
Kharkov
Dnepropetrovsk
Sofia
1 or 2 of Berlin, Prague and Leipzig
Many more avoid starvation only by changing production squares.
If this is intentional, some warning might have been nice in order to try to build up food stocks during the summer. However, with only 4 slave workers there is no manpower to waste on irrigation.
I'm going to use summer terrain parameters throughout the scen in order to avoid the need to twice a year go through all cities and change production squares.
Excerpts from the Manual of the Civilization Fanatic :
Money can buy happiness, just raise the luxury rate to 50%.
Money is not the root of all evil, it is the root of great empires.Comment
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I got the same surprise when first playing. Curt has put it in intentionally. I've now accepted some starvation here and there, as part of the winter hardships. Also due to me being too lazy to micro manage all cities to max food production in the winter.
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Indeed- Large maps are fun to play, but can be wearisome to shift units around in!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
I finally finished the German 1941 summer campaign just before the first Russian blizzard made movement impossible. It took a while as the scen is large and intricate and the logistics complicated.
Good! I made that change in the last update, methinks!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Germany can already build Stock Exchanges in my download.
I done a few changes based on your suggestions, so I am hoping the new
SCN file will make things a bit more useful in terms of economy...
Good read-out of the units there!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Because of Sun Tzu, Germany fights with vet ground units:
StuG III has A/D=13/2 and Mv=3 which become A/D=19/3 and Mv=3 for vets.
Artillery has A/D=13/1 and Mv=1 which become A/D=19/1 and Mv=1 for vets.
In my opinion, the vet numbers make the StuG III infinitely superior to Artillery. I really see no way to make Arty useful, short of giving it Mv=2 so that, when it moves up to a city, it does not have to wait a turn before attacking.
The problem is one of cost effectiveness.
In the following tables
XXX = have some of these units at the start but cannot build more
194X = earliest year when unit can be built
X techs = number of new techs that need to be discovered in order to build, 0 techs means that unit is buildable at start
Assault Gun ........ nil, 0, 2.,0, 13a,2d, 5h,2f, 10,0 1941 XXX
Bison .............. nil, 0, 2.,0, 11a,1d, 8h,1f, 10,0 1941 XXX
StuG III ........... nil, 0, 3.,0, 13a,2d, 5h,2f, 10,0 1941 0 techs
Bison .............. nil, 0, 2.,0, 11a,1d, 8h,1f, 10,0 1941 1 tech
Jagdpanzer IV ...... nil, 0, 3.,0, 13a,2d, 6h,2f, 12,0 1941 5 techs
Fighter ............ nil, 1, 10.,1, 3a,3d, 8h,1f, 10,0 1941 XXX
Bf-109 ............. nil, 1, 10.,1, 4a,3d, 8h,1f, 11,0 1941 0 techs
Me-262 ............. nil, 1, _8.,1, 5a,5d, 8h,2f, 20,0 1941 6 techs
Me-1101 ............ nil, 1, 12.,1, 7a,7d, 8h,2f, 25,0 1946 6 techs
Bomber ............ nil, 1, 12.,2, 12a,1d, 8h,1f, 16,0 1941 XXX
Ju-87 Stuka ....... nil, 1, _8.,1, _8a,1d, 8h,2f, 13,0 1941 0 techs
Ju-88 ............. nil, 1, 12.,2, 13a,1d, 8h,1f, 17,0 1941 0 techs
Fw-190 Jabo ....... nil, 1, 10.,2, _5a,4d, 8h,2f, 14,0 1941 1 tech
Do-335 ............ nil, 1, 10.,2, _9a,2d, 8h,2f, 16,0 1941 1 tech
Ho-229 ............ nil, 1, 16.,2, _7a,5d, 8h,2f, 20,0 1945 1 tech
Ar-555 ............ nil, 1, 18.,2, 15a,4d, 8h,2f, 28,0 1946 4 techs
I like your idea of making Arty move two, and will give it serious thought!
I can see the Jagdpanzer IV is a bit of a rip-off, and may do something about that!
I agree!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
For assault guns, StuG III is the only unit that can be built from the start. The Bison, which comes after the StuG III, has less performance and I see no reason for building any. The Jagdpanzer IV has a marginally better performance than the StuG III but is it really worth researching 5 techs and paying 20 extra shields for a minor improvement in performance?
Time to add a Jagdpanzer IV change to the list!
I guess the old Bf-109 is played out historically! They never did really replace it!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
For fighters, one is stuck with the BF-109 because its performance improves with time. For example, by 1945, the Bf-109 has A/D = 5/5, very close to the Me-262’s A/D = 6/6 at the same time. Is the difference worth the cost of researching 6 techs and then paying nearly twice as much for the jet? IMHO, players can call it either way. Also, Germany starts out with 39 Bf-109’s and, unless they are used foolishly, most should survive for years and form the backbone of the Luftwaffe fighter force.
The Me262 and other jets may have to be beefed up in order to make them worth the effort!
Again, I think I unconsciously made the Ju-88 another stalwart that does not get replaced for ages.Originally posted by AGRICOLA
For bombers, the Ju-87 is the only decent multiple attack a/c until the Me-1101 comes along in 1946. Similarly, the Ju-88 is the only real bomber until the jets come along in 1945 and 1946. The only alternatives, the FW-190 and Do-335, are fighter-bombers that don’t fit into my scheme of things.
If any real glaring changes are need by the end of your playtest, I would be chuffed to make them - I value your suggestions, mate!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
I don’t want to suggest various changes because I’m quite happy with things as they are and changing any German unit would create a cascade of changes to other units.
I'll do that today!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
The best way to do this would be for you to e-mail me the .scn file, the development file or both at the end of your day. I will have them back to you by the next day.
I would love to let all the small civs off the leash and allow them to have diplo-fun,Originally posted by AGRICOLA
ADDITIONAL COMMENTS
George Patton is reputed to have said "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." I would paraphrase that as "I would rather have 2 enemy civs than a dumb ally."
The Romanians in the Balkans and Ukraine, the Italians in North Africa and the Finns in the northwest Soviet Union do damnably little for the German cause except get in the way, block roads and make general nuisances of themselves.
How about a bit of optional diplomacy so that one can tell the louts to get their units back to where they belong so the Germans can carry on their war with the Soviets and Allies in peace and quiet?
but I fear the 3rd Reich would go postal and invade them within 1-2 turns...Unless events
could be used to keep them chummy until something goes ugly...(like the loss of a major front)
Good idea, I will look into this! Halving the A/C might be a good penalty?Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Winter ranges of aircraft are too short to ferry some of them, especially Stukas. Why not make a/c too weak to be effective for fighting but not alter their movements. I would have lost some a/c in the summer-winter changeover if I hadn't checked RULES2 before November 1941. Normally I would have had some Ju-88's and FW-190's out on recce flights to the limit of their ranges.
I'll look into that, right away!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
I had problems with the Stuka and the Bf-109 on the airfield near Helsinki at the start of the scen. They have no place to go until the Germans capture Riga and Tallinn.
Good suggestion - I'll fix that up ASAP!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
The number of Engineers/Laborers generated by EVENTS is adequate for the smaller civs but not so for the vast German and Soviet empires. I did not receive either type of unit during the summer of 1941. I would suggest changing the RANDOMTURN denominator from 6 and 5 to 2 and 2 for both the Soviets and the Germans.
Good stuff - I look forward to the next opening of the offensive!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
The 1941 summer campaigns are finished in in the east and in Africa and, in time honoured fashion, the Wehrmacht is going into winter quarters. The 5 R’s will occupy the next 4 months: Rest, Recreation, Repair, Replacement and Rush building units for the 1942 campaign.
Excellent, the feedback is hugely useful!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
The German situation at the end of November 1941 is shown on the attached map. I’ll be sending you the OPSUM and the 6 summer saves in case you want to check out how the Jerries managed Barbarossa.
May the war gods look after your troops!
Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Very interesting scen so far.
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Gadzooks! You have gave Stalin a good thrashing, old chap!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Forgot to attach. DUH!
Lucky you were not really around in 1941!
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Going good, mate!Originally posted by PietH
I'm in April '44. The allies have taken the whole of North Africa and are battling their way up in Italy. I'm not sure if it is because I'm now playing on deity, but it was a hard fight indeed in Italy. But it was remarkable to see that my balkan partisans encountered a very large italian army there (near Belgrade), that probably have been put to better use on the mainland italy.
I have massed a giant force in the south of England. Over a 100 units are standing by to pour into France at D-Day. In hindsight I should have produced more airpower, but the current force will do just fine.
On Agricolas' tech and new units remarks: I agree that for some units the extra research and production costs are not always worth it. The Sexton has hardly an advantage over the standard tank destroyer. But I'm a sucker for the newest toys, so I'm putting in the extra effort anyway.
Sounds like you and AGRICOLA should be in a multiplayer with each other!
That would be a war among the gods!
About the unit balance/cost - I am drawing up plans
to make some of the later units worth the bother.
I think there is not any harm in a few heavy duty units at
the end of the tech line - Especially if cost balances them.
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Originally posted by AGRICOLA
The following cities will unavoidably starve in the winter of 1941-1942 and decrease in size by 1-3.
Gorky
Kharkov
Dnepropetrovsk
Sofia
1 or 2 of Berlin, Prague and Leipzig
Many more avoid starvation only by changing production squares.
If this is intentional, some warning might have been nice in order to try to build up food stocks during the summer. However, with only 4 slave workers there is no manpower to waste on irrigation.
I'm going to use summer terrain parameters throughout the scen in order to avoid the need to twice a year go through all cities and change production squares.
Will I make granaries available to all civs?Originally posted by PietH
I got the same surprise when first playing. Curt has put it in intentionally. I've now accepted some starvation here and there, as part of the winter hardships. Also due to me being too lazy to micro manage all cities to max food production in the winter.
It would not be a big problem...!
I could call it 'city storage' or such.
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Unfortunately I was already around . . . . . . .as a knee-high-to-a-grasshopper toddler just learning how to cuss.Originally posted by curtsibling
Lucky you were not really around in 1941!
I have granaries (Pyramids in Kiev) but they do not help. This is essentially a no growth scen where some cities have an annual food deficit. During summers they can produce no surplus food and during winters they have a deficit until their size is reduced.Originally posted by curtsibling
Will I make granaries available to all civs?
It would not be a big problem...!
I could call it 'city storage' or such.
P.S. For whatever little it is worth, here is my opinion of someone who is responsible for food riots in my cities
Excerpts from the Manual of the Civilization Fanatic :
Money can buy happiness, just raise the luxury rate to 50%.
Money is not the root of all evil, it is the root of great empires.Comment
-
Originally posted by curtsibling
Going good, mate!
Sounds like you and AGRICOLA should be in a multiplayer with each other!
That would be a war among the gods!
About the unit balance/cost - I am drawing up plans
to make some of the later units worth the bother.
I think there is not any harm in a few heavy duty units at
the end of the tech line - Especially if cost balances them.
...
I have to admit I have never ever played a multiplayer game.
Agricola would wipe the floor with me. All the tips and tricks I have picked up while reading his posts have improved my game greatly.
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Having cities starve in winter sounds sensible in a WW2 context; there can't have been much population growth in Europe at this time
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You could have been an army mascot!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Unfortunately I was already around . . . . . . .as a knee-high-to-a-grasshopper toddler just learning how to cuss.
(doubling as strategic advisor)
Hah! One of those smilies has a fish!Originally posted by AGRICOLA
P.S. For whatever little it is worth, here is my opinion of someone who is responsible for food riots in my cities
All this talk of starvation is obviously exaggerated!
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Indeed! The lack of growth just adds to the doom-laden atmosphere!Originally posted by fairline
Having cities starve in winter sounds sensible in a WW2 context; there can't have been much population growth in Europe at this time
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OK, I surrender.
I'm outranked and outvoted.
I shall sadly reconcile myself to living with the shame of allowing my cities to starve.
You're right. There certainly isn't much potential for city growth in this scen . . . . . . . there are 20 rows in food boxes.Originally posted by fairline
Having cities starve in winter sounds sensible in a WW2 context; there can't have been much population growth in Europe at this timeExcerpts from the Manual of the Civilization Fanatic :
Money can buy happiness, just raise the luxury rate to 50%.
Money is not the root of all evil, it is the root of great empires.Comment
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It's no trouble to change the winter food situation...
Just let me know what you think is best, AGRICOLA!
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