Seeking advice for El Aurens v2

[Boco]

Actually, I'm seeking 'forest' not 'trees' advice, so your lack of intimate knowledge with ToT triggers is no problem. Triggers can be any one or more of the following usual suspects:[list=1][*]City is captured[*]Unit is killed[*]Unit is bribed[*]Technology is acquired (by any means)[*]Turn x[*]City builds an improvement or unit[*]City is destroyed[*]Etc. (the remaining triggers aren't really practical here)[/list=1]
What could represent the straw that broke the camel's back? Murray commanded from Cairo with predictable results. The advance across the Sinai was slow and marked by tactical errors and missed opportunities (e.g. Katia and Romani/Oghratina). The attacks at Gaza were unimaginative and poorly executed.

London became increasingly dissatisfied with this. Although they wanted to capture Palestine with an economy of force, eventually they were convinced that an advance could not be accomplished without reinforcements and a better battlefield commander. Like the arrival of Monty in 1942, Allenby was accompanied by a surge in equipment and ammunition. Unlike Murray, he was the right commander for the job.

I can't simulate the change in GOC personality, but I can trigger the arrival of more heavy artillery, infantry, and cavalry.

As a player, how much do you feel I should vary the arrival of Allenby/Reinforcements. Should the trigger be based on time alone or on performance?

[Mercator]

Re: Triggers for "The Bull"

Originally posted by Boco
@Merc. Next week, I'll be placing a few cityless labels on map1. I'll check out CivEng then. What was the bug?

I used an Integer rather than a Long (VB data types) to store the offset of the start of the maps section, so it balked at values higher than 32767. The offset is at 29896 + the size of the variable length Transporter section before it. I hadn't tried it with transporters before yet. That pushed it over 32767 in your case.

[fairline]

I suppose that if the player is doing well then logically Murray should not be replaced by Allenby early if you consider that the British government is trying to run the campaign on the cheap. I'd therefore stick to the historical 'window' to reinforce the British.

I don't suppose you can make the event conditional on a couple of eventualities can you? If turn = x and British have not captured a certain Palestinian city, then award Tech = Allenby. Probably not I guess, particularly as one trigger is a negative.

[our_man]

Boco, it's very hard to try and figure out a way to incorporate Allenby in the way you hope, especially if you want to keep the scenario historical. The reason is that in the long run it's better for the player to hold off and wait for Allenby. If you want him to turn up at the same time as he did in reality, there's not a lot that can be done as I can see it.

The only thing I can think of to encourage the player to try and play it fast with Murray is to use events to increase Turkish troop numbers with time elapsed. Therefore if the player risks waiting for Allenby Turkish soldiers might be sufficient in strength to bog his advance down. This might also increase the players desire to develop N Arab Army (which I never researched) etc. as a way of attacking the Turks from a vulnerable side, and cutting off their troops if they're homed to certain key cities.

I'll think some more about it.

[Boco]

I'll see what I can do to make the pre-Allenby phase a race against time. There is a particular unit whose defeat pretty much requires heavy artillery. Currently in v2, it forms the backbone of the Gaza line from the beginning. Historically the line wasn't held in force until after 1st Gaza (3/17). Perhaps, I can delay its creation until after then.

In such a scheme, Allenby/Reinforcements would arrive beginning 6/17 unless Gaza is captured.

What if the Allies capture Gaza pre-Allenby? The Turks, who had a knack for 'just-in-time-reinforcements', would have likely organized a line that would have stalled the EEF somewhere in Palestine. WWI offensives, even those of the EEF, were severely constrained by logistics after advancing 20 miles. Even though the Turks were shattered in 10/17, it took the EEF three months to advance to the Jaffa-Jericho-Jordan line. In the event of a pre-Allenby breakthrough in 1917, it is still likely that an Allenby-style buildup would be required to break through to Syria/Lebanon. So what should we do?

The military benefit of the North, South, and East Arab Armies was debatable. One school argues that they provided the nucleus of the force that tied down several Turk divisions in the East and South. Another argues that they were completely worthless. Perhaps I'm making irregular Bedouins too easy to acquire?

An overlooked (certainly by Wolfowitz) political benefit of organizing and supplying Arab regulars was the generation of good will. It indicated tacit support for postwar Arab self-rule. That saved the EEF from expending tremendous resources to enforce martial law on an hostile populace. If I can figure out something clever, I'll try to simulate this. Ideally, if the player (1) doesn't support the Arab revolt actively and (2) signs the Sykes-Picot and Balfour agreements, there should be happiness penalties. Any ideas on political benefits of Arab Regulars?

[techumseh]

I'm not really up to speed on this, so if this suggestion is silly, please tell me nicely to sod off. Would it work if you eased up on the triggers so that Allenby would be researchable sooner, and then imposed a points penalty for doing so sooner vs. later? So the earlier you researched him, the greater the points penalty.

[Boco]

Not silly at all, and in fact this could solve some sticky scoring problems. AFAIK, 'sod off' is still okay by American censors in its undiluted form.

Right now I'm using the standard Civ2 scenario scoring scheme (not objective-based). You're suggesting an external tally like Case's Cruel Sea used?

Wouldn't be too tough to whip up a spreadsheet and possibly a RTF for that. I could also be fancier (and clearer) about how to score points in the diplomatic department.

Any other opinions on the scoring method?

[techumseh]

How about something like this?

http://www.geocities.com/njcoyote7/ElAurens.htm

Objective
Points

Bonuses


Happy Citizens
8 points each

Content Citizens, Entertainers, Reporters, or Colonial Administrators
4 points each

Unhappy Citizens
0 points

Special Objectives
100 points each

Turns without Combat
150 points / turn

Receiving ‘No Reinforcements’ (Future Tech)
50 points each

Penalties


Eliminated Units
-100 points each

Sabotage left in disrepair
-50 per square

Handicaps


Saudis (Barbarians set at ‘Villages Only’)
-50 points

Designer’s Error (4 Units Eliminated in Nov 1915)
-400 points

[Mercator]

Originally posted by techumseh
How about something like this?

http://www.geocities.com/njcoyote7/ElAurens.htm

But that is simply the standard scoring, customized by changing the scoring points in the rules.txt as you can do in ToT.

I suppose the problem was implementing the Allenby penalty in that set-up, right?

I haven't exactly followed this development and I'm not sure how you've implemented this Allenby character... As a technology?

If you have implemented him as a technology you could implement the penalty using events and one of the two ways players can lose score: through losing units or having pollution.

Say, you could have an event like this (working from memory, but you get the idea):

@IF
ReceivedTechnology
receiver=Allies
technology=(Allenby tech)
@AND
Turn
turn=(pick a turn that is too early)
@THEN
CreateUnit
...
@ENDIF

And repeat that for a bunch of turns before the desired turn. Either you could create some very weak bogus Allied unit that would get destroyed easily (= penalty), or perhaps create a Barbarian nuke in some inaccessible area that will attack some preplaced immobile unit (do Barbarians use nukes?) to create pollution (= penalty).

Or you could use flags instead of repeating such an event for multiple turns. Turn flag A on when Allenby is discovered, turn flag B on when the desired arrival turn starts. Now on every turn that A is on and B is off, do something to create a penalty.

[techumseh]

Well, I came up with great idea, but like most of my great ideas, it won't work. That's because you've used every goddam wonder in the game, Boco!

Here is my idea anyway. If you had some obsolete wonders you could use as point generators, you could give one every so many turns by using the BestowImprovement event. Once Allenby is researched, a simple flag could be used to prevent the awarding of any more of these point wonders. Therefore, the longer you wait to get Allenby, the more wonders are given and the more points you get.

[Boco]

Originally posted by Mercator
I suppose the problem was implementing the Allenby penalty in that set-up, right?

I haven't exactly followed this development and I'm not sure how you've implemented this Allenby character... As a technology?

That's a fair summary. Allenby is a Tech ("the Bull"), which is the prerequisite for both Darwin and a tech that is a preq for the essential heavy artillery. Merc, your idea would work well, but I've used "every goddam unit slot in the game" for non-nukes, and I'm too lazy to rethink them. Besides, the artist will hang me if I make any more slot changes (once he descends from cricket heaven, that is). I think I can still use the essential part of your idea.

Originally posted by techumseh
Well, I came up with great idea, but like most of my great ideas, it won't work. That's because you've used every goddam wonder in the game, Boco!

Tech, this is a gem! I might even have to sacrifice a wonder or two.

Maybe I could rename a wonder as "Wipers IV" (4th Ypres for non-Limeys), and following Merc's idea, leave it in an undefended size 1 city ("Western Front") on a corner of map3. Then I could use a simple ReceivedTech @AND Turn trigger to create German Howies adjacent to "Western Front" sometime in the last half of 1917, if and only if The Bull has already arrived. So yes, the 'wonder' represents further carnage on the Western Front.

I forgot that I've "used every goddam city slot in the game!" I think I can change that.

So, our_man would a chance to get another wonder encourage you to try without the Bull until 1918?

Maybe I could link other techs to the "Western Front". The city starts under Allied control. Then Germans appear whenever the player doesn't divert enough resources from the Near East: e.g. late 1917, Spring 1918, etc. If the Allies play their cards right, they'll control the city, and its wonders, at the end of the game. Poorer strategies would give the city to the Germans or cause its destruction.

[our_man]

So, our_man would a chance to get another wonder encourage you to try without the Bull until 1918?

Unfortunately I don't have a copy of ToT here with me at the moment so I can't check specifics... but my gut feeling is no, it wouldn't. If I remember correctly two of the advances Allenby entitles you to are IMHO key. These would be the Heavy Artillery and RAF Palestine.

You have to remember as well that researching Allenby allows you to research another tech that leads to a wonder (Darwin's Voyage)?

Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this stuff as I can't look at it at the moment, but from what I remember this is the way it should play out.

[fairline]

Agree with O_M; there's not a lot you can do to take Palestine without heavy artillery.

@Boco: I like the Wipers idea, I think. Having said that, I haven't fully sussed your reinforcement map yet; do you mean that the player should choose between protecting the Ypres city and it's wonders or moving units therough the map gate to Egypt?

[Boco]

After the consultation with MercTech Associates, I've thought about it a little more. It still needs to be fleshed out, but here's the kernel.

There's a completely isolated city called Western Front that's controlled by the Germans contains a WoW called Heersgruppen West (not sure what to call it). It's defended by some 39 Trench Line units. Every turn an Allied Siege Arty is created next to it. By 11/18, these SA's would have eliminated 35 TL units, but 4 will remain. The Allies get one SA each for (1) the Sykes-Picot Agreement (a WoW), (2) the Balfour Declaration (another WoW), getting the WF Withdrawals tech (a massive transfer of units from the EEF to France in response to Kaiserschlacht in 1918), and landing on alpha centauri (represents the cumulative effect of making withdrawals throughout the scenario). By getting all four, the West Front with its WoW can be captured.

Delaying Allenby will also generate an 'extra' SA. That would allow the Allies to capture the West Front a turn earlier.

The scheme would give the player a global context for Sinai-Palestine campaign. It'd also give incentive for building those WoW's and requesting those techs.

On the other hand, the scheme adds another layer of complexity to the scenario, which already has some depth. There are other strong incentives for these WoW's and techs. So I'm undecided whether it's worth the extra effort on the part of the player (and me) to include it. Perhaps for this release, I should keep the timing of Allenby pretty fixed.

[Boco]

Bump!

Back in September, I burned out on this scenario. Time heals memories of frustration , so I'm going to give it so more effort. If, after a marathon session or two, it looks okay, I'll make an effort for a beta release before New Year's. Sorry it's such a snail's pace, but RL won't permit more.

I just can't let all that Irn Bru-influenced artwork go to waste!