Rise of the Third Riech

[Sarsstock]

I'd say this one is quite beyond the drawing board Eivind. I've personally seen the map, the completed unit graphics as well as the cities graphics.

All and all the only element holding it back from surging forward is the question of what civ's will be represented in the game.

[AGRICOLA]

I think that you have to simplify as much as possible, and forget about some of the historical events where Germany or Italy had only peripheral roles, such as the Spanish civil war and the war between Finland and Russia.

I would suggest the following 8 civs

-Germany
-Italy
-Western Allies (British Empire, France and US forces)
-USSR
-Contested States (Poland, Baltic States, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Iceland, Albania, Ethiopia, Persia, Slovakia, Greece, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria)
-Neutrals (impassable terrain) (Finland, Portugal, Spain, Andorra, Ireland, Switzerland, Sweden, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan).
-Demilitarized Zones (Austria, Danzig, the Czech part of Czechoslovakia, and the Rhineland)
-Tito's Partisans (barbarians)


Contested states include almost all that any of the belligerents either did or could have attacked.

IMO, because little or no territory changed hands in the case of the wars in Finland and Spain, both should be neutral and stay out of the war because you may have trouble keeping the Allied AI from attacking them if they are on the side of the Axis. Also, after the Finn-Soviet war, there really wasn’t much action north of Leningrad.

It might be useful to have a “Foreign Troops” unit(s) to help either the Axis or Allies and which can be created as needed by events if either the Axis or Allies have captured certain cities or have a de facto alliance with a civ. I’m thinking of the Baltic, Balkan, Spanish and other foreign units on the Eastern front, the Vichy French, as well as the Free French divisions with the Allies.

I don't see how you can work the Vichy French into the scen as a separate entity in 1940. You cannot very well start the scen with a part of France and French possessions in North Africa held by barbarians allied to the Axis. The best bet might be to use events in 1940 to have the Germans take over all Vichy cities and garrison them with Foreign Troops.


@Sarsstock

All and all the only element holding it back from surging forward is the question of what civ's will be represented in the game.

IMHO, no. Patine's very promising and interesting EOTR still needs very major work and testing.

[Sarsstock]

Well, I'm affraid I'll just have to disagree Agricola. Its a promising idea that need only settle which civ's it will feature before moving ahead with the development. It is afterall (and I'm quite sure you'd agree) a major hurdle that has to be cleared before the events and rules of gameplay can be laid down.

I am glad we all can agree that this is a great idea in concept with a great load of potential.

[Eivind IV]

I mostly agree with AGRICOLA here. He's making a lot of sense. But jeez, Andorra, John?

I wouldn't even bother having a neutral civ, as all their cities would be behind impassable terrain anyway. Have all those areas impassable terrain as suggested and have France as a civ instead.

To avoid an annexation of the DMZ civ in '33, maybe have impassable terrain around their cities until '36. Or even better, make events "normalize" their terrain to grassland or whatever as they historically was remilitarized or annexed. Now I'm making a lot of sense here .

Btw, as far as I know, Danzig was never demilitarized. At least the Poles controlled the harbour I think.

[AGRICOLA]

But jeez, Andorra, John?

You're right, Eivind. I forgot to include Liechtenstein, Monaco, Luxembourg, the Vatican and Lower Slobbovia.

[Patine]

I must say, I appreciate the support on this project! As AGRICOLA says, however, and I agree, EotRS is the first priority. But that said, I still plan to have these civ's ironed out before I begin full work. And, Eivind, I am fairly well along, having, as Chris said, a good selection of unit and city graphics and a map (though Steph was offering me one he thought was better, but MSN messenger wouldn't let him send it; I'm hoping he'll post it here), as well as terrain graphics, so I've got a bit of progress. I think AGRICOLA's idea may work, but I'm not sure I want minor Axis and minor Allies in the same civ (I may still split them into two separate civ's). I agree, ultimately, about the impracticallity of including Vichy France, and thus probably won't. As for the various pre-WWII wars (the SCW, the Winter War, the Italo-Ethiopian War), I don't want to give up on them, but I may ultimately have to (they do cause a lot of trouble).

[Patine]

I'm currently considering the following option for civ's (this endless stickling point), which I think should work decently well (I hope):
-Germany
-Italy
-Minor Axis
-British Empire (with US reinforcements)
-France
-Minor Allies
-USSR
-Demilitarized Zones (barbs)
-Neutrals (impassable terrain)
Something similar was proposed earlier with Steph's ideological divide proposal, but the tripping point was I had put Franco's group with the Minor Axis, thus making him a belligerant. However, if I handle the SCW through poppup text and such, and make Spain neutral, the setup might just work.

[Eivind IV]

Glad to see you finally came to senses ( ) and took me up on that SCW proposal, the removing of the neutral civ and the DMZ to the barbs now. Looks good now the civ setup!

How about Finland then? Are you removing Finland as well? I agree with John and think you should.

[curtsibling]

Are the countries divided by politics or nationality?

I still think if this scen was concerned only with Germany,
and the civs were ideologies, that would innovative and fun!

[Patine]

@Eivind: I don't yet know about Finland. I may include them as part of the invasion of the USSR, if not including the Winter War.

@Curt: Essentially, there are three ideologies, but seven civs: Fascism and Democracy each get three civs and Communism gets one, as follows:
Fascism
-Germany (playable civ)
-Italy
-Minor Axis (Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and maybe Finland)
Democracy
-British Empire (with US reinforcements)
-France
-Minor Allies (Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxumbourg, Denmark, Norway, Poland, Yugoslavia, Greece, and Iceland)
Communism
-USSR
Others
-Demilitarized Zone (barbs) (Austria, the Czech part of Czechoslovakia, the Rhineland, Danzig, Persia, Albania, and the Baltic States)
-Neutrals (impassable terrain) (Portugal, Ireland, Switzerland, Sweden, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan)

[AGRICOLA]

There may be some historical events that this lineup of nations may have some difficulty in recreating.

The US occupation of Iceland if Denmark is an ally.

Will the Minor Axis states be allied to Germany and Italy or will they need to be captured? I assume that you intend that, to take Albania and Greece, the Germans and Italians will have to work their way through Yugoslavia and the Minor Axis states in the Balkans.

[Eivind IV]

By having the Rheinland in barbarian 'DMZ', the cities will get completely ****ed up when you "capture" them. Improvments will get lost etc. I'd suggest keeping those cities in German hand, but just habe them emptied for units. Or as suggested alredy, have impassable terrain around them until 1936.

[curtsibling]

Any chance of a sneak peek at the save-map?

[typhoon]

Originally posted by Eivind IV
By having the Rheinland in barbarian 'DMZ', the cities will get completely ****ed up when you "capture" them. Improvments will get lost etc. I'd suggest keeping those cities in German hand, but just habe them emptied for units. Or as suggested alredy, have impassable terrain around them until 1936.

They could still build units inside these cities.

[Patine]

The point of the Balkans will have to be carefully considered, and I should think of just how to run the Rhineland issue (both Eivind and Typhoon are right on that one). As for Iceland, it may be DMZ (perhaps). And, Curt, I'm afraid the only save-map I currently have is from the version of this scen, complete with old civ ideas, from when I first started, but if you wish, here it is.