Red Front for ToT

[Colwyn]

Originally posted by Boco
AFAIK, specials in ToT still use the parent terrain modifier, regardless of what you write for the special. Only did limited testing long ago, though. Is this what you're after?

ta mate, yes i wanted to know if the improved terain would increase or decrease def strength in TOT based on the new value. Damn i really hoped that would have been fixed in TOT as it was a well known thing that didn't work in civ2's

[techumseh]

Is there a ToT conversion of Colwyn's 1.5?

[AGRICOLA]

No.

[techumseh]

Would someone be willing to do it?

[AGRICOLA]

I suggest that you should contact Colwyn. I have reason to think that he might be rather interested in having it done. I don't know about the "willing".

EDIT:
P.S. Do you know of a better source of the finer points of TOT events than the downloadable TOT manual?

[techumseh]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
I suggest that you should contact Colwyn. I have reason to think that he might be rather interested in having it done. I don't know about the "willing".

EDIT:
P.S. Do you know of a better source of the finer points of TOT events than the downloadable TOT manual?

Colwyn?

http://coc.apolyton.net/guides/index.shtml

[MacGalleo]

To eliminate the "Too many units" problem, I have made some changes to the Events file. The principle is 1 unit killed = 1 unit spawned. I had already changed the .scn file by thinning out the rear echelons of the German forces by ~170 of the weakest units.
I will test these changes now. But as more tests are better than one, all those who want to test also are welcome.
Tell me if the "too many units" problem appears again.

These are the necessary files to test...

[MacGalleo]

Originally posted by techumseh
Is there a ToT conversion of Colwyn's 1.5?

No, but it would be great to make it...
I have no time now to make this conversion, but if nobody can do it, I will try (after the "too many units " and partisan problems patch and before working on a improved version of redfront...)

[AGRICOLA]

Sorry MacGalleo, but it looks like your post and my latest e-mail to you crossed during the night.

I have already tried what you have done and it doesn't work properly because the Soviets lose such a large fraction of their of their total summer losses in the first two turns, thereby gaining huge reinforcements by July.

Also, I have belatedly realized that Captain Nemo had to use 'units killed' as a trigger to spawn German reinforcements because of the limitations of the MGE events language. Because in MGE one @IF can only spawn 1 unit, there is no other way that he could adequately reinforce the German summer offensive.

In TOT, with its much more powerful events language where one @IF can spawn up to 255 units, there is much greater flexibility in generating reinforcements. Furthermore, by separating units killed from units spawned, we can get away from factors that distort play such as:
- at all costs avoiding killing a Wehrmacht unit because one killed Wehrmacht spawns 5 replacements (RF 1.4 and RF 1.5)
- disbanding Red Army units to avoid them getting killed and spawning 2 German units (RF 1.4 only)
- homing Red Army units to a city and then moving them east so they are lost but not "killed" when the city is captured by the Germans (RF 1.4 and RF 1.5)

I'm testing to see how well one can monthly reinforce each of the 3 main German thrusts (Leningrad, Moscow, Sevastopol), initially with 20 assorted units. If an attack seems too powerful/weak, it is simple to reduce/increase its monthly reinforcements. 20 units was chosen for the intial testing because this frees up an additional ~300 unit slots by Dec '41.

Apologies to those who say 'Keep it simple, Stupid.' but, in this case, there is a much better and completely controllable means of reinforcing the Germans rather than what Captain Nemo was forced to use. If we are going to use TOT, let's use it to the max.

[MacGalleo]

@Agricola
I just read your mail and your approach is very interesting.
The importance of my method is to avoid the "too many units" problem. But its weakness is that we can not really control the number of German reinforcements. It depends on how to play the game.
Your analysis avoids the "too many units" problem in controlling the number of units created. This is a shining example of what can give a team effort.

However, I have noticed that beyond a certain number of units spawned by the events file, the AI does no longer use redundant units in the turn where they were created ...

After testing the method 1 unit = 1 unit killed spawned, I have not seen the message "too many units" ...

Have anybody tested it?

It will be up to community to decide whether this method will be included in a patch in version 1.4 TOT or if it is necessary to further develop one whose Agricola just tell us.

I want to make it clear that the first is the closest that Nemo used.
But the second will improve how the AI will play in the first part.

[AGRICOLA]

Originally posted by MacGalleo
However, I have noticed that beyond a certain number of units spawned by the events file, the AI does no longer use redundant units in the turn where they were created ...

1. Well done! You have hit the critical nail on the head with this observation. Without unused (still mobile) units at the end of their first turn, the Germans can do nothing on their second turn!!!!
It is only these still mobile units and spawned replacements for killed units that are active during the second German turn.
Only on the German third turn do the units which complete their movement during the first turn become active again.

It took me 3 @$#%&! days to figure out this @$#%&! quirk of the 'ghost turn'. I can recall encountering a similar problem when testing RF 1.5 and wondering what was going on.

Originally posted by MacGalleo
After testing the method 1 unit = 1 unit killed spawned, I have not seen the message "too many units" ...

Have anybody tested it?

Tried it twice. Had one mobile German unit (Wehrmacht) at the end of the first turn on the first test and none on the second, so nothing happened on the German second turn in either case.

P.S. Don't expect 'too many units', if any, until the end of the summer or during the winter.

[Colwyn]

Comrades i've nearly finished it

Originally posted by techumseh
Is there a ToT conversion of Colwyn's 1.5?

I anticipate finishing RF 1.5 for TOT within the week, i have imported the new graphics and taken advantage of tot to fix a few things. You will even see some new events (;

I will release it as a final beta so all you guys can actually enjoy playing it and i'll be interested to see when you guys make it to Berlin!

[MacGalleo]

I test once again and if I'm satisfied I'll post the patch...

[techumseh]

Re: Comrades i've nearly finished it

Originally posted by Colwyn


I anticipate finishing RF 1.5 for TOT within the week, i have imported the new graphics and taken advantage of tot to fix a few things. You will even see some new events (;

I will release it as a final beta so all you guys can actually enjoy playing it and i'll be interested to see when you guys make it to Berlin!

I'll be happy just to hold the Urals!

[Colwyn]

Panic mongers will be shot

Originally posted by techumseh

I'll be happy just to hold the Urals!

The NKVD and your commisar officers will tolerate no defeatest attitudes, the german horde will be defeated.

Our best generals have reviewed RF 1.5 and as long as you defend the major lines and plan for a victory in 44/45 victory will be ours.

Comrade Zhukov has written a report on his observations at the comencement of June 1941 and will include it with the scenario to assist the junior officers.

New events: Transportation of industry to the urals as germany overuns key industrial area's.

Redeveloped stalingrad, citidel operations by the germans depending on the current front lines.