A Little help about WTLPD

[Edgeblade]

what is the difference between the normal civ2 and the MGE (which i have)?

it is true that the ai hate you after the first meeting, but sometimes if you leave them alone for 5-10 turns and then ask to trade again they sometimes trade with you. I dont think the power rating has anything to do with it, when i am supreme they hate me, when im mighty they hate me, and so on down the list (havent gotten to pathetic yet )

since im new, and probably trying to do too many things, i would prefer to go down one route of playing (either first landing, conquest or just out-teching them and owning their legions with mechs), however im not sure which would be the best to learn

any advice and how i might be able to improve that side of my game?

[Grigor]

The best teacher for learning the workings of the tech tree is to try some of the the One City Challenge positions which are archived somewhere on this site. (perhaps in the Great Library??) They tend to start on nicer positions than a normal random start. Paul wrote an outline of a plan for winning, also archived, and if you follow it you learn a lot. It is often very exciting at the end. And it takes considerably less time than any other type of Civ 2 game.

[Edgeblade]

just out of interest, when you are ahead in the game (ie on your F3 form, it says you are supreme etc), and you have the democracy tech, do you/should you go into it asap or what?

i have found democracy to be a hinder to my way of playing (Which is changing all the time anyway). And im not fully sure of the advantages of democracy except the fact you cant attack anyone until they break the treaty and attack you etc

i think in the one game that i did play, my food was reduced quite a bit...but as i said, i dont know the advantages/disadvantages of democracy as well


this game that im playing now, i went along the engineering route more than usual, i was the first to get leonardos (which is good for me...yes i know veteran soldiers are no more when they are upgraded) because most of my units are not upgraded when i dont get it, and i find in the end im getting dragoons attacking my phalanx's

i missed out on copes, and as a result my ssc (which doesnt have much trade because most of the caravans went on wonders earlier on in the game) isnt doing very well...only producing 144 beakers in 1853 (one of my cities is currently researching the hooverdam) although my science tax rate is only at 50%...as well as that it has 3 trade specials (whale, silk and spice).

I really think i need some help in getting my SSC correct...ive never had any ssc producing more than 640 beakers per turn in any of my games since i started trying.

i dont klnow what i do wrong, i get the science upgrades, i try for all the wonders (my copes was almost finished when the ai built it but i couldnt buy it because i had no gold ), and i get trade specials, rivers, shields etc, irrigate + road and yet it hardly ever puts out many beakers

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Democracy has 2 principal advantages:

- cities grow when celebrating with a food surplus (like in Republic, but minus the corruption)

- cities are unbribeable.

The extra trade arrow per tile with trade is nice, but you can get that in a celebrating Monarchy/Fundamentalism/Communism. The latter 2 governments have no corruption and waste to speak of, and since the AI seldom bribes cities, the only thing you miss by avoiding Democracy is the city growth via WLTPD.

Fundy/Commie are a lot easier to play, IMO, because unit support and happiness are less of an issue and the Senate doesn't mess with yourwar plans.

[Edgeblade]

seldom bribes cities my ass

in my last game, the egyptians continually bribe my city (ok i did take over it from them), but i continually have to check the outskirts of the city for the diplomat to make sure hes not there heh

what about trade and production benefits??

and is there any upkeep for soliders (i am currently being pissed off by 3civs biulding cities on my island...and im having trouble getting rid of them since they have teh same or almost the same tech level when it comes to units

[Ben Kenobi]

in my last game, the egyptians continually bribe my city (ok i did take over it from them), but i continually have to check the outskirts of the city for the diplomat to make sure hes not there heh

You need a cash buffer, so that the AI can no longer afford to bribe your cities.

The amount that your cities cost to bribe depends not only on the distance from your capital, but also on the amount of gold you have in your treasury.

Try not to spend all your cash at the end of the turn. I used to get so frusterated with the AI, until I left a cash buffer, and now I laugh at spies.

[Edgeblade]

ok, gimme an idea of howlarge the cash buffer needs to be...

[Ben Kenobi]

Depends on the situation. I can't tell unless I know how much money the egyptians have, and how much you have.

Try about 500 gold or so. That should be enough to prevent most bribes.

Don't let the AI pile up too much cash. Try to invade their cities so that they are kept short, or to make peace with them and demand tribute. This way they will never be able to compete with you in terms of their economic development, even given all the unfair advantages they get on Deity.

[Edgeblade]

they just ignore my feeble threats, and i find it very hard to take over an enemy city as generally they go for all the unit techs while i go down the science/government route to start off with so they generally have better units. Also i find it hard to trade iwth the AI because after our first meeting no one wants to trade. And not only that but because we are all on different islands, i dont meet most players until a little later in the game, and by then they always have a lot of gold


in the current game, i had around 1000 gold when they bribed my city with a diplomat...so obviously they must have quite a bit of gold

i am finding it very hard to destroy even the smallest enemy cities, since i havent played many games on deity yet, or many games on civ at all, my experience of warfare is somewhat clouded, i normally avoid it as long as possible until around the time i get cavalry..ie ive caught up with their unit techs, but by then the ai have gotten a foothold on my island...

i have taken some cities on their islands, but that is as far as i get, it seems a futile task in trying to take over another city...no matter how hard i try, their defensive units generally win and i have no idea how to boost my options apart from trying to get ahead in tech...which is happening slowly, but not as quick as i would have wished.

and to re-ask my question, what is the difference between the standard normal version of civ2 and the MGE that i have...

[Ben Kenobi]

they just ignore my feeble threats,

Are you Supreme?

and i find it very hard to take over an enemy city

Do you have diplomats available? Steal technologies from the AI so that you also have the military technologies to conquer their cities.

Secondly I notice that you haven't learned the foremost advantage that the human player has over the AI, and that is concentrated forces. For this reason, Railroad is an important technology, as it allows you to concentrate all your forces in the entire empire upon any one point.

In your game that you posted, you had no railroads connecting your cities, so of course it is going to be hard to take down the AI, because you do not have sufficient forces in one area.

This is also why you are struggling to conquer isolated cities, because you do not have the freedom of movement provided by railroad.

Also i find it hard to trade iwth the AI because after our first meeting no one wants to trade. And not only that but because we are all on different islands, i dont meet most players until a little later in the game, and by then they always have a lot of gold

Islands are good. They allow you to take advantage of two continent bonuses when trading. Do you know how to use caravans and are you familiar with some of the vagarities of trade that help you to increase your payoffs from camels?

Secondly, do you know about shipchains, and how they can be used to solve your logistics problems at sea? That to me is your biggest problem right now, you don't know how to organise your forces so that you can conquer your enemies efficiently.

For this reason, it is often better to not build a large sprawling empire in the beginning, because it will be difficult to achieve the number of forces necessary to conquer cities.

Generally, it is better to move your units via ships, because your ships will move faster over the sea, than over land, until you get railroad. Then the opposite will be true.

and to re-ask my question, what is the difference between the standard normal version of civ2 and the MGE that i have...

Vanilla civ AI just wants to be taken by you.

The AI is much less hostile to weaker powers than on MGE, which tries to give the AI some killer instinct.

Probably the best case of this, is when you are playing vanilla civ, you can win the game with one city size one, provided that city is built on a gold mountain. You launch a spaceship by begging funds from all the other civs, that take pity on your weak nation, so long as you are able to first establish a network of alliances.

[-Jrabbit]

Edgeblade -- If you like Republic, you will LOVE Democracy! In essence, it's like Republic but without the corruption. (OK, it's deeper than that...)

And if you're having diplomatic trouble with the feisty MGE AI, get to Commie and buy the United Nations. They must offer peace (and can only avoid it by refusing contact).

Another key to late-game success -- SPIES!!! By far, the most overpowered, underpriced piece in the game. For 30 shield, you can steal a tech, poison or bribe a city, even nuke it (but don't go there...). But the best use of a spy is...
1) free "inspection" of the city (costs 1/3 of a move point), followed by
2) selective sabotage of city defenses (bringing down the walls).

So you'll know exactly how much defense is there, and whether they're likely to be Vets (barracks). Then you can stage your attack with precision.

Also, have you used the "insta-fort" technique yet?

More on the MGE AI: takes more gifts to reach Worshipful, takes fewer turns to go from worshipful to bad attitude, is much less likely to form an alliance and much more likely to break them. The upside is that it's very easy to provoke WAR! while maintaining a Spotless reputation (which I always do, for fun). The difference in nastiness really show up in the One-City Challenge, where diplomatic success is critical.

[debeest]

Edgeblade, the cost of bribing a city (yours or theirs)varies according to several things. One is cash on hand. The basic formula is

bribe cost = citysize * [(gold +1000) / 1000] / distance factor

So, that middle multiplier increases by one for every thousand gold you have.

Other factors can also affect bribe cost a lot, but this shows the effect of gold.

[offa]

Originally posted by Edgeblade

The biggest problem with this game i have found (starting so late) is that not many people play it anymore heh.

But they play it so well, and they are so helpful. I think you would be hard pressed indeed to find better advice on playing civ3, which is played by lots more people.

I am not an expert so the main advice I can give is to believe all the great stuff the others are telling you. If you can start well (not easy) civ2 is much easier to win at deity than civ3. As suggested by others a fairly effective technique is to switch to fundamentalism, set science to zero and steal techs and bribe cities from the AI. Much more satisfying though is to read through Solo's early landing guide... and marvel.

[rah]

Originally posted by debeest
Edgeblade, the cost of bribing a city (yours or theirs)varies according to several things. One is cash on hand. The basic formula is

bribe cost = citysize * [(gold +1000) / 1000] / distance factor

So, that middle multiplier increases by one for every thousand gold you have.

Other factors can also affect bribe cost a lot, but this shows the effect of gold.

and remember, it seems that the distance calc is done from the position of the unit that is initiating the bribe.
So it can be cheaper to bribe if the diplo/spy enters the city from the side facing your opponents capital then from the other side.

[Edgeblade]

what is the insta-fort technique...never ever heard that one



i can start well on deity, i dont know why, but i always get ahead of the AI in most games normally to falter around the middle of the game and have the ai catch up with my rapid-style

the current game however is pretty good, i am getting better simply by listening to these guys which is good, but with not many human players to play against my improvement is getting stinted hehe