NEW Civ2 Tournament August 16 - September 14, 2004 : SPOILER Thread

[Zenon]

New Apolyton Tounament, 08/2004
Medium Map, Greeks, 460 AD Conquest

I finished my game with a 460 AD conquest. With a good starting position and a lot of tributes the game developed very well. I could start conquest around 400 BC. The conquest proceeded better than planned. A major factor for the early conquest date: I had little problems with respawns. Also the barbarians were kind enough to destroy the blue civ. Here is the log:

BC
4000 Athens
3950 Sparta
3850 Alphabet
3700 hut 25g
3600 Code of Laws
3150 Bronce Working
2950 Thermopylae
2900 Corinth
2700 CB
2300 Monarchy
2250 Monarchy established, Delphi (5th)
2150 Pharsalos (6th)
2000 Germans destroyed by barbarians
1900 Map Making,
1850 Knossos (7th)
1600 Currency, Argos (8th), Mongols: peace, 100g,
1350 French destroyed by barbarians, Japanese: peace, give Map Making, maps, 50g
1300 Mycenae (9th), Heracleia (10th)
1250 Trade, hut: 25g
1050 hut: settler
925 MPE, Chinese: trade for Reading, Pottery, 150g, no respawn for the blue civ
900 hut: none legion
875 Ephesos (11th)
850 Russians: peace, 200g; Spanish: peace, 150g; Literacy, hut 25g;
825 Thessalonika (12th)
800 Hanging Gardens;
750 Mongols: give techs, trade for Mystizism, maps, 150g;
725 Spanish: trade for Polytheism, maps;
675 Philosophy Monotheism; Spanish: trade for Masonry, Warrior Code, Mongols: give tech
650 Rhodes (13th); Russians: 50g; Mongols: give tech; Chinese: give techs, maps, 25g;
625 hut: 50g
600 Eretria (14th)
575 Mongols: give tech; Spanish: 50g
525 Michelangelos; Troy (15th)
500 Pyramids, Barbarians near Argos, Russians, give techs, maps, 50g
450 Mongols: 150g
425 Feudalism, new setting tax 70 science 30
400 Sun Tzu

The 5 wonders I wanted are complete. The generous tributes helped to do this very early. The AI civs are not developed, yet. I decide to launch 3 campaigns within the next turns: one against the Mongols, later going South to the Russians, the second against the Japanese, later going South to the Chinese and the third against the Spanish. They have a city almost at the South pole, obviously from a hut and it will take a long time to get there. I hope to finish the campaigns at about the same time. All cities now produce units. A basic ship chain towards th Mongols is in place. A transcontinental road on the central part of the main continent South of the Greek home towns will be a priority. A trireme is allready exploring to dicover possible respawn areas.

375 war against Spain
350 Valencia captured, Horse Riding
250 Mongols declare war, Bokhara destroyed
225 hut: settler
175 Japanese: 150g, war declared, Osaka destroyed, The Wheel
125 Mongolian phalanx on moutain bribed for 108g, the Mongolian troops on a mountain were a difficult challenge and had blocked my advance for a while
100 Samarkand captured, Kashgar discovered and captured by a brave settler from a nearby trireme
75 Karakorum captured, Marathon (20th), Halicarnassus (21st), build on the Western neighbouring island to restrict respawns and to have troops in place
50 Toledo destroyed

AD
1 hut: Crusader, Russians 200g

1 AD stats: 26 crusaders, 10 triremes, 5 diplomats, 14 Pikemen, 7 Phalanges, 1 Legion, 22 Warriors, 8 Settlers, 21 cities;

40 Tabriz captured, Madrid (Colossus) captured, Construction, Kyoto captured, Japanese destroyed, no respawn, hut: Republic, Chinese: 150g
100 Pergamon (25th), Salamanca bribed, 192 g, 40g plundered,
120 Chivalry, hut: Barbarians,
140 Chinese: war declared, Nanking destroyed, Leipzig (Mongol) captured, Mongols destroyed, no respawn,
180 Sevilla captured,
220 Barbarians near Marathon,
240 Tsingtao captured, Miletos (30st),
260 hut: barbarians, Valladolid destroyed
300 Xinjiang captured,
320 Shanghai captured, hut Engineering,
340 Russians, peace 150g,
360 Peking captured, Great Library, Chinese destroyed, no respawn, Spanish, peace, give techs, maps,
380 Artemisium (34th),
400 Russians: war declared, Moscow captured, Sevastopol bribed for 108g,
It took a long time to reach Moscow. Having only crusaders for attack and with a city wall arround Moscow I waited until I had 8 crusaders there. As it turned out I lost only one and needed only 2 more. The Russians were to busy chasing my evading troops in the North. The Russian empire will now fall within 2 or 3 turns.
420 St. Petersburg captured,
440 Odessa detroyed, Cordoba bribed, Barcelona captured, Spanish detroyed, Aztec respawn: peace give techs, maps, a settler on 7, 71, a Crusader is allready waiting on this continent, Aztecs destroyed, no respawn, Kiew captured, Smolensk captured, Russians destroyed, Celtish respawn: settler on 97, 69, a crusader is allready close, at this stage of the game there are very few places on the map were I could not reach a respawn within 2 or 3 turns
460 Celtish settler meets my crusader and demands tribute, we refuse, we demand tribute, Celts declare war , Berlin (Barbarian) bribed, Celts destroyed, Roman respawn, give techs, maps, almost the same place as the Aztecs, Romans destroyed, no respawn

After a 6 month break from civ 2 this game was fun.

Zenon

The final sav is attached

[solo]

Nicely done, Zenon!

[MarkG]

3 days to go only 6 official results

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by MarkG
3 days to go only 6 official results

Reading Zenon, after DaveV, I would say you have got the Quality , if not the Quantity
(and we haven't seen any game sent by MarkG yet, have we ? ).

[MarkG]

zenon hasnt entered an official entry

as for myself i've already said that my first attempt was a failure and will sumbit a second entry after the official end

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by MarkG
3 days to go only 6 official results

My effort is not worth uploading

Besides... you got a whole bunch of people discussing Civ2 strategies and comparing approaches, when this forum had been pretty quiet. And incidentally, you got me to play my first full game of Civ2 since late 2003. I'd say this tournament idea was an unqualified success, regardless of how many people upload results.

[offa]

I've finished. Spaceship landed in 1797

It was even worse that that really, as I got a little fed up with the trading, and tried a bit of caravan rehoming. This felt pretty cheesy though, and removes some of the subtlety from the game. I can see that it would be very powerful if done well.

My biggest mistake looking back seems to have been made in 4000bc when I built Athens on the start spot, thus blocking the SSC used by Bloody Monk. My SSC had only one special, which was always going to be bad. I had thought I had 2 specials until near the end of the game when I finally had a proper look!

Anyway, well done everyone: there are some superb games here. I particularly admire Bloody Monk's effort though. I never achieved single turn advances and so got really bogged down.

The submission page doesn't seem to work.

[MarkG]

The submission page doesn't seem to work.

more details?

[offa]

The link went dead on me. However, it seems OK now and so for what it is worth I have submitted. I hope I haven't done anything which would infringe the rules, which frankly I never found.

MarkG: Thanks for organizing this. It seems to have attracted some brilliant players back into the fray.

BTW, since many of you don't seem to play much civ2 anymore, and also don't appear around the civ3 forums much (at least not at civfanatics), what else do you play. Is there another viable strategy game out there, or are you all playing Doom3?

[Peaster]

Great game, Zenon!

Do you have any earlier saves that you would be willing to post? I am especially interested in the years around 400BC- 1AD, and how you produced so many wonders and units without a huge number of cities.

[solo]

Peaster,

From the looks of it, I think Zenon rushed caravans first for wonders, and when they were complete, shifted production to military units. I think the rest of us built many more military units earlier. By completing MC so early, followed by Pyramids for growth and Sun Tzu's for more vets out of the gate, he was able pass our rates of production quickly and conquer the AI cities sooner. A great strategy of prepare first, and then conquer quickly afterwards.

Offa,

You're right! I think MarkG's excellent idea of having a tournament has sparked our interest and acitivity with many playing who have not been around for many moons.

The next game may have some extra rules or limitations, which will be good, but in this one I think any and all exploits were allowable, the choice being left up to individual players. If there are any specific rules, they are usually stated up front when the game is launched.

Other games?

I am trying the Dominions II demo now, which is a very complex and detailed TBS game. While I'm not really into games with as many magic potions and spells as this one has, I am finding it to be a good challenge. However, just when I thought I might be getting the hang of how to play it, the demo suddenly stopped, informing me where I could purchase the complete game!

Doom3? Isn't this some sort of first person shooter video type game designed for kids? High on splashy graphics and effects and quick trigger fingers, but low on strategy?

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by MarkG
3 days to go only 6 official results

So, I misread the newsletter, then?? I thought you extended the deadline a week. Was that for non-official enteries only??

Monk

[MarkG]

the extension was for those who would declare in the forums that they were playing the game, and i havent seen any

[Zenon]

Originally posted by La Fayette

(BTW nice to see you back )

Thanks La Fayette! It is great to be back, too. Real life needed my full attention for a while, but hopefully I can play a bit again the next time.

MarkG, the lifely threads show that this tounament came just at the right time. I am sure that more submissions will come in before the end of the timeline (which is extended, isn´t it?)
I just tried to submit my game and noted, that my hall of fame didn´t show the result of the last game. I tried again - no result, only the score. I then loaded the game in MPGE and got a 1392 score and 180%. But the score shown in 2.42 was different. I then removed the old hall of fame in 2.42, supposing something was wrong with the file and it worked again, showing a score of 1892 and 245%. I tried 2 more games, an ELG, showing equal results and a conquest game, again with better score and percentage in 2.42. Did anyone else test this before? What percentage should I submit? If this is a general problem and not just a problem with my installation we should take all scores and percentages in MPGE.

Peaster, I think Solo is right. Until the last caravans for the wonders were built I produced other units only to prevent unhappiness, a few triremes for transport and exploration and settlers for expansion. I have looked into Solos log. He had a much better start and allready HG and MPE when I was just about to finish my first wonder. The speed in completing my wonders came from exploiting a maximum of tributes once I had build MPE and from focussing on only one task. In stage 2 I could then concentrate on crusaders and phalanges/pikemen. I never built any city improvements. I personally think that working in a build up and a conquest phase and the decision to launch 3 campaigns at the same time was the key for the early conquest. To achieve an early conquest it is good to think from the end of the game. In other words what cities will be the last to reach for your units and in this case, were are units needed to chase respawns. I have attached some savs you wanted.

Thanks for the comments to everyone.

Zenon

[solo]

Zenon,

Yes, a trade for Ceremonial Burial saved me a step to Monarchy allowing a fast start. I also traded for Bronze Working and maximized beakers to get Trade much earlier than expected, allowing earlier construction of HG and MPE. After that, I became too ambitious, shooting for Invention-Chivalry. Monotheism & Crusaders are available much earlier, as was proven by DaveV & yourself.