The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[OzzyKP]

There was a talk some days ago about that we shouldn't insist on these 1 on 1 free trades, because it doesnt really change anything except those who wake too late could find themselves without trade partners. This rule is in place to help closing the gap somehow not to make it a tech trade race at the end of an era. So why don't we allow truly free trades of these techs?

I agree entirely with this. Backwards civs don't have the option of buying techs off of other civs (with cash, or units, or information, etc). To require a backwards civ without much tech to have tech to get more tech makes it difficult to move up.

[Persia (DoC)]

I exclude Persia, of course, as they are the true manifestation of evil, IG, on the face of the planet and must be destroyed! Kill a Persian - Win a Metro!

That's true, especially compared to India!

[India (DoC)]

Bah I must think St Jon's civ is not in my sphere of influnce (yet) anyway I must try harder

[India (DoC)]

I agree entirely with this. Backwards civs don't have the option of buying techs off of other civs (with cash, or units, or information, etc). To require a backwards civ without much tech to have tech to get more tech makes it difficult to move up.

Come on, Robert, put it on vote or just ask if there is any objection. if not we can use it from now on.

[Korea (DoC)]

what is the proposal ?

[Robert]

Let's discuss it first some more, then we can put it on a vote.
There's enough time. It'll be 2 turns before India is in the modern era, but after that the 3 next civs need at least another 50 turns

The reason is that if you make 'old techs' freely tradable, you make smaller civs dependant on the bigger ones (because smaller civs will get the desired techs only from their master if they're good)

you lose all forms of possible diplomacy, and it takes away all fun by just making it "now all civs get all old techs at once."

I failed to get all classical techs last round, in example.
But as far as I can see most civs get most techs by some clever trading.

And of course the smaller civs may start to abuse this system more. After all they're with more. They can make better agreements, exclude big civs.
The fact that this free trading is not being used smartly right now doesn't mean that it can't grow.

I think that making it just free for all will only dumb things down.
And I doubt that it'll help the smaller civs at all. (remember that the big civs also can more easily get all techs!)

Small civs: you are with more! Do some clever planning together and outnumber the biggies! That'll help you much more then dumbing things down.

Just my opinion, I'm fine with a vote
Let's discuss it for 3 more days and then have a vote.

[Egypt (DoC)]

I agree entirely with this. Backwards civs don't have the option of buying techs off of other civs (with cash, or units, or information, etc). To require a backwards civ without much tech to have tech to get more tech makes it difficult to move up.

Sounds great to me, but then again, I am a backwards civ, so of course it sounds great to me

EDIT: posted this without seeing RP's post before me as he posted at the same time as me, I think he makes some good points, I shall thus ponder upon these matters...

[Robert]

To require a backwards civ without much tech to have tech to get more tech makes it difficult to move up

That's why the small civs should do better planning!
If 4 small civs all research 1 tech, they can share these 4 techs with each other in the current system.

Making things more simple is always less fun! (otherwise we would be playing a 3rd person shooter, not a 1 year lasting civ4 diplo game!)

And last but not least: in the current system the big civs need the small civs as much as the small civs need the big civs.
It's not charity. It's a fair trade. The big civs won't get the desired techs if he's not good to his allies, or if he has no allies at all. (and if all civs play this wisely!)

[India (DoC)]

The reason is that if you make 'old techs' freely tradable, you make smaller civs dependant on the bigger ones (because smaller civs will get the desired techs only from their master if they're good)

I think this is wrong, because:

1, we saw that everyone trades with anyone like a mad just not to miss the chance (the best way to do it to send as many trade offer as you can and see who will accept it)

2, no matter how good boy is the small civ, the "master" only can give him tech if the small civ too have something to offer, and quite often it's not the case.

[Robert]

1. thus civs must organize themselves better and anticipate on the free trades! Make the deals in advance.

2. Then they go to another small civ. Or better: execute #1 better and plan the research in advance.
When I was in the game last turn, almost all civs had medieval techs to offer to me. And the ones that did not most probably had some to offer to others.

but let's see, is there any civ right now that doesn't have all ancient/classical/medieval techs yet? And if so, which ones?

[India (DoC)]

Quite possibly everyone has everything or will have, what I did not like is the race feeling to get the techs asap before it's too late.
I'm not saying that everyone should get every tech for free, they still need to find a trade partner who can give them the techs (don't forget no tech brokering so you can get the tech only from those who had researched it)

Current model: race for the techs, planning is a possibility but what we see is mostly random trades with anyone we can

proposed system: no need to hurry, if your friends have the tech you need they can give it to you even if you cant offer as many tech they have. planning still usefull who research what since no tech brokering so only researched techs can be traded away.

[Persia (DoC)]

I agree that the current rushed situation is not fun.
I just think it needs time to all of us to get used to it. We all need to use the system more clever.

[Orb (DoC)]

If your going to make old tech completely free why stop there. Why not just let all the techs free so we can all trade with India, get to modern times, and blow eachother up into a million little pcs with nukes.

[Egypt (DoC)]

Nucular. It's spelt nucular...

[Persia (DoC)]

What is it, Egypt, Nucular or nucular?

@Robert: Persia failed to get 2 techs last round and 1 tech this round.
Save Persia, make all obsolete techs free!