The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[India (DoC)]

there would be no scramble for you if you couldnt get the techs

every era it is you trading the most so dont tell me you dont want this

if you dont like the scambling or worry bout missing a turn then except my propsal and it removes all those worries from ytou,

The question now is not who can trade freely but how do we do these trades...
but consider this:
In current system the more advanced civs usually have better chance to get free techs because they have more to offer->more possible trade partners, so the change would help the less advanced civs the most.

About your proposal: I don't really like it (do you realise that you are in the top 5, right? )
I have a question, what do you think: which civilisation would get the most benefit from your proposal?

[Korea (DoC)]

yes i do relaise i am in top 5, i am one fothe few intop 5 scores who is agaisnt this proposal so it shows by the votes who it really beinfits

undermy plan the lower scored civs will trade all there old era tachs to eCH OTHER and the top 5 will need to reasearch any they skipped.

THE LOW civs have not been benifiting as muhc as top civs.

do a count of how many free techs persia and byzx and india got each round of free trades so far, AND COMPARE IT to how many the bottom two civs got, they prob got one per round so far , whilst the indians have repeatedley gained 3 or more

[India (DoC)]

You can't imagine that some of us propose something to make the game better and even help _others_ not themselves.
You don't belive me even if I say that I got only 1 useless medieval tech and won't need more free trade.
Thats why the answer to my question: it is India who would get the most beneift by saying yes to your proposal, because it would make my rivals relatively weaker.

But you still haven't said a word about what is your problem not enforcing the 1 on 1 rule.. you just keep saying it's bad because a top5 civ proposed it so they must hide their true intention somewhere.. bah..

[Arabia (DoC)]

Arabia ABSTAINS because I don't understand the vote.

I think it is working fine even if I really don't understand any time I get a trade request what it is going to cost me.

When it was free trade I haven't been reporting them (sorry) ... free trade is free trade why report?

I recently had a bunch of people sending me trading requests for the one trade I had and they didn't but I turned them down fearing I'd spend a voucher... then after I realized from the threads that we'd crossed an era. Now because they already have it I think you are saying now that if I have nothing to trade I can't trade for one I don't have? So I can't even accept a gift?

Aside:

Sorry I find all these trading rules a little over the top. I assume every time I get a trade request that I'm spending a voucher. Most times now I just turn them down ... its easier. My worthless opinion ... Either allow trades freely or prevent them in the game options entirely and the whole management issue goes away. But that's beside the point. Right now I'm terribly behind have no chance in catching up but I play about 1 in 2 turns mostly (although right now I'm super busy at work and don't have time) ... I get poor votes because I don't post elaborate stories but votes or score really I don't care about ... Civ is a little mindless distraction and enjoyment for a friggin miserable life right now. But next week ... I'm sitting on a beach in Negril and its all worth it! Ottoman is subbing for me ... he'll likely do better.

[India (DoC)]

the current vote is about a minor change:

Now: when the techs of an era become freely tradeable you can get free techs only if you can offer a technology in return

proposed change: Now the free techs would become really free, so no need to hurry trading in the fear of missing something.

[Arabia (DoC)]

AHHHH !

Thats what I thought

OK then I say FREE TRADE ... I vote YES

Sorry for the confusion.

[Egypt (DoC)]

I think that India is right, they have little to nothing to gain by this rule. So Korea, I understand your concerns, but I think you are taking the discussion too far. India is not hellbent on gaining as many techs as he can, he's just playing the game and having fun and posting cool stories. He has very little to gain from this rule as his research capabilities allow him to research older techs in just a few turns, he doesn't need others.

My thoughts are as follows:
- since the main goal of this game is the 'diplo'-part of the game, I think the score difference is not a really big issue. Also, even if bottom civs get more techs, they would still not gain up much on the big boys, as they are simply too far ahead, and if we keep the rule in place that you can only do free trades of techs two eras back, then the gain is minimal.

- the fact that the top civs are much further ahead doesn't bother me at all. In the real world, the same thing happens. I think it's actually really cool to see the differences. This way, we get the same unbalanced world we actually live in, and the same international political situations that we are familiar with, spawning great story lines!

- However, in the real world, there is development aid. Allowing free tech trade could be seen as an actual reflection of development aid, a tool often used to secure strategic resources in third world countries (ie what China does in Africa), but also as window dressing or sometimes because of genuine humanitarian reasons. I like the idea that on some level we can use that in our game. Because we can only trade techs freely from a while back, this shouldn't cause too much upheaval in the balance of the game I think.

To sum up:
I vote yes, because of how it affects the diplo part of the game: it brings in the element of development aid, enabling us to think up all sorts of strategies surrounding the giving and receiving of aid, which I think could be interesting. I can't think of many negative sides to enabling it, especially since it only concerns techs from two eras back.

[Persia (DoC)]

@Arabia: it's only free tech trade for old techs, not for all techs

Egypt: +1

[Persia (DoC)]

@Korea; here's a list of free techs all civs traded during the past couple of days:
(I based the list on civstats, it most probably contains some errors)

Greece:	3
Arabia:	1
Rome:	2
Egypt:	3
Inca:	-
---------
avg	1.8 per civ

Russia:	2
Britan:	2
Mali:	4
Ottom:	4
Nativ:	1
---------
	2.6 per civ

Korea:	-
Byzan:	1
Persia:	3*
Engl:	2
India:	1
---------
avg:	1.4 per civ


*Persia also traded a classical tech

Conclusion: the middle 5 civs benefit most from the free trade, the top-5 civs benefit the least.
Not to mention of course that it's very well possible that someone votes in such an ooc poll in a way that does not benefit them.

[Orb (DoC)]

I vote yes. I also think we should lower the civs needed to advance to the next age from 4 to 2.

[OzzyKP]

I vote yes. (if I get a vote)

[England (DoC)]

Yes

[Mali (DoC)]

yes

[OzzyKP]

Question - will this take effect immediately?

[Robert]

@Ozzy: I guess so.

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Vote results so far:
Yes: (8) (53% of players, 88% of voters) )
- India
- Persia
- Egypt
- Arabia
- Britannia
- Rome
- England
- Mali

No: (6,66% of players, 11% of voters)
- Korea