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The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

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  • Byzantium (DoC)
    replied
    Originally posted by Rasputin
    i dont beleive byz would ever have attacked england if the india war did not hpapen and england lost so many lives.
    For info, Ras, you are partially right.

    In fact, I was building up to attack England at the time when India launched its wicked and completely unprovoked (but great fun) attack on me - I think that England knew this at the time, it was certainly moving defenders to the front, and was unsupportive in the face of India. In a way the fact I was preparign for war saved me, because it did mean I had some reasonable forces built up, and so was surprisingly able to defeat the Indian invaders. Unfortunately, the losses I suffered against India meant any attack on England was out of the question at that time. It also meant that revenge against India became the higher priority (coupled with the fact that their attack on me proved to me what you who were closer to India perhaps already knew, that they were completely dominant and so only a co-ordinated effort against India would have any hope of challenging them, which in the end in a way we organised those it failed). (Also, I was close to attacking England earlier at the time of the 4/5 small nation attack on them. I would have been very happy to coordinate an attack with them, but they never spoke to me about it, and launched the attack when my army was still overseas facing Russia. Again, I think England knew this because at that time they signed a treaty with Persia for mutual defence if either were attacked me by - talk about surrounded by bigger nations!).

    Where you are right, is that in the 24 hours after the failure of the India attack, when Basil died and I rethought - what does this mean for Byzantium? - I realised that there maybe was then a chance to go back to the old enemy of England. Yes, England's losses in that war were significant in that calcualtion, but I had lost lots too - 17 tanks never mind infantry and artillery. To be honest more to the point was that while I was still on full military production England had stopped. I was producing three tanks a turn, and it was producing nothing. So by four or five turns later there was a massive inbalance in forces.

    We are not going to see those events the same, I'm sure, and I'm not trying to argue the point, just answer your interesting question from my perspective. The important point for me, which I know others see differently, is that the India attack was completely genuine (unlike Persia's, you scheming *******) - it was designed to bring down an Indian tower, not to kill English troops to facilitate an attack on them, but yes once the smoke cleared I then did see an opportunity partly because of the scale of English losses and, as I say, the fact that they weren't building any new troops.
    Last edited by Byzantium (DoC); April 8, 2010, 14:36.

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  • Byzantium (DoC)
    replied
    Oh Toni,

    I love the way you post lots of half-truths again, in a long attack on how I have played this game, and then post a quick sentence saying 'let's move on'. Talk about trying to have the last word!

    But OK I give in. Have the last word. Proclaim you version of the truth once again if it makes you feel better. I'm sure nobody is interested in what either of us say on this topic and those who once were have long since made up their minds. I'm just sad that after a great game the end has been overshadowed in all these occ attacks and giving up on the game. But, well, its worked so much smoother and with less argument than BtP did, so I will focus on that and be thankful.

    And yes I would be happy to have a beer with you. I was worried in teh first version of your post since it said you would be happy to have a bear with me, which I wasn't sure how to interpret! But beer, yes, beer is good.
    Last edited by Byzantium (DoC); April 8, 2010, 14:32.

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  • Egypt (DoC)
    replied
    Haha, Egypt in its final state looks like a little man leaning on Mali and Byzantium

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  • bamf226
    replied
    Congrats India. Will be glad when we can formally break anonymity. Curious how many knew who I was.

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  • Robert
    replied

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  • Robert
    replied
    Originally posted by Rasputin View Post
    i still like to see the final figures of losses in the indian war to every side...
    There you go: (click to enlarge)

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  • Toni
    replied
    Raz I suggest we leave the Byz/Eng issue behind us now. It is done!! It is history.

    Lets wait for the final votes and AFTER THAT have Robert set up the next Diplo Game Episode.

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  • Rasputin
    replied
    i still like to see the final figures of losses in the indian war to every side...

    that may make me feel a bit less sceptical of the byz attack on england...

    i dont beleive byz would ever have attacked england if the india war did not hpapen and england lost so many lives.

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  • India (DoC)
    replied
    Don't hold it back just for me. I wanted to post that music clip and a few more lines which I will as soon as i feel to, it won't affect the voting/scores.

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  • Robert
    replied
    Game is down now. Forever.

    By request of India we'll delay the time for the last stories a tad bit. (we all want to know how India ends the stories, don't we?)
    (And we of course need the results of March in first.
    I hope that WarningU2 will wake up soon and be able resend the results again.

    I'll launch the last voting round when India has posted it's last story and the results are up. Please wait for that.

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  • Robert
    replied
    Thanks Toni!
    And please don't have a beer with The Priest. You guys may become too friendly and decide to team up against me.

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  • Toni
    replied
    Yes I agree that they are over the top, still we leave in democratic times. There is freedom of speach after all here.

    Lets cut to the chase and end this issue.

    Priest I will have a beer with you anytime anywhere. Yes things did not end well between us this game. What can i say i took it badly. Too naive to belive that Byz could do that vs England. Else i would have been prepared.

    No hard feelings. I needed to take it out of my system.

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  • Robert
    replied
    Robert I agree with you, but all those past conflictbetween us two, there was always a reason. You gave me some arguments there to wage wars on you. Nothing was sneaky about it like this latest issue.


    Well, it's true that Byzantium didn't build the strongest storyline up for the attack I have seen, but it was there. A bit minimal indeed, but there were warnings. (in our PM's to organise the attack on India he responded to my continueing "Enemies of my enemy" by stating that we are indeed only clingnig together b/c of common goals. In fact he played the same game there as I did.

    Personally I do indeed prefer to write larger stories to foreshadow events, at least in a hidden but when all is revealed clear way. Like Russia did when it invaded me.

    But there have been many wars in diplo games with far less story buildups.
    Also in this game I have seen declarations of war without stories forewarning them.
    I'd be the first to say that I would prefer more stories, but the facts are that most wars (unfortunately) do not have a large story-line buildup. That's life.

    I'd like to introduce a new category: "role playing" for next game (which should replace 'diplomacy').
    We should then rate players on how their in-game actions and diplomacy relates to the role they play. Are the stories and characters of a player on par with their diplomatic relations and their in-game behavior.

    Anyway, I do think that your responses to The Priest are over the top.
    An odd "the story buildup to the war was minimal" would have done a much better job.

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  • Toni
    replied
    your problem is that I beat you in an in-game war. You were very happy to be the first nation in score, happy to be stronger than me all game, and so were so pissed off when I successfully invaded you
    I've never seen a more envyer player like you Byzantium.

    As usual you will twist the words in your favour, but sadly byzantium/Priest it was you being so frustrated seeing me above you in all game, that pushed you out of your skin to make it your goal to come and attack me at any cost. Yes you just said that in your post above!!

    This is no OOC attack Robert, just stating the obvious. Yes England lost vs Byzatium, that was never a war just a player with no dignity and IC/OOC story reasons to pull a short one just. (Yes being the good writer Byz did post a turn prior some fantasy reasons for attacking England).

    The ugly thing is that Byzantium ended the game in a ladder style way, just mechanically setting up so he can take out England. In a ladder game i would have shaken your hand but in the Diplo style, sorry no.

    To Robert, yes my fault that i did not see this coming, thus i will be now more careful now knowing what a player Byzantium is.

    Also why are you jumping on me Byzantium about the not trusting issue? Do you have a problem me not trusting you anymore? What i said above was just my summary towards you as a player style.


    Robert I agree with you, but all those past conflictbetween us two, there was always a reason. You gave me some arguments there to wage wars on you. Nothing was sneaky about it like this latest issue.

    you threatened to leave the game, and although
    Do not make me LOL, funny how you would forget in an instance the fact that you did OOC play me in a time when you were planning to attack me shortly. Funny how that works?

    What gets to me forget the war thingy, that is you keep on acting like you did the right thing. Yes I am only human, I take losses badly like everyone, I am not saying that I am right or wrong. But mate you have some balls to feel 100% right at what you did vs England.
    Last edited by Toni; April 8, 2010, 03:13.

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  • Robert
    replied
    Toni, I think that you are mixing up OOC with IC here.
    Byzantium did attack you ic, well, a war is always evil in some way. But that's an IC thing. You go a step further, harashing the OOC behind the civ. I don't think that's fair and I think that you should not do that.

    As a matter of fact, in this game I played myself a very unreliable egocentric civilization. This was in opposite to my last game where I role played a honourable civ that, despite being warmongering, always stayed true to it's word.
    Next game I'll play something completely different. And so may the Byzantine player.

    Byzantium invaded England at a very very pecular moment, just after the war with India had ended. That's indeed quite evil, but I must say that I'm shocked that you didn't see it coming! I've personally been anticipating this attack from like the beginning of the game.

    Russia invaded Persia at a very pecular moment. The entire Persian army was on it's way to the aid of Arabia when Russia declared war and took out the entire Persian army which was replaced after the borders were closed. Very evil and at the worst moment possible for Persia. I'd say: very well played by Russia.

    So please, try to get over it. I know that it feels very bad to see your civ ruined near the end of the game, it has happened several times to me myself. (most of the times by you ) (after I provoked you heavily indeed), but that's a part of the game.

    it's advisable though indeed to keep your borders with the Byzantine player well secured at all times! But to be honest, please don't leave your borders with me unsecured either!!

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