The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[Korea (DoC)]

look at nmuber or english troops used in greece, how many persians were gifted to russia for their war. howe many byz to egypt

seems that reality is the nubmers of gifted would increas till you got the resutl you wanted.

so i prefer the open method of beignhonest and figihting under my banner rather than hiding it and pretendign later in game they werent my units.

i perosnal dont liek the UPGRADINg of units by antoher it is so easy to do and means you can skip tech reaserch all together.

I find that very unrelaistic...

[Persia (DoC)]

Some armies doesn't equal many armies.
Once again, it all depends on how you execute things.

[OzzyKP]

to latest Korean story post

[Korea (DoC)]

I firm;yl beleive it is the upgrading and gifiting of amry that is far more detrimentla to this dipl gmae than any internvetion of a larger civ.

In game it creates the same result the aidedciv will beat of its enemy, but the gifting civ remains anonymous therefore can jump up and down later when it is down properly with a nation taking a stand agsint wrogndoing and intervening.

Relaity is you cant hide the forgienersin yourarmy in realy life, Byantine soldiers would stick out liek a sore thumb in Egypt. But we cna do that ingame because of the mechanics of hte game.

So lets not pretend that gifitng of units or even upgrading is not as bad as interevention.

But at least with intervention it is done openly

[Robert]

game's up!

[Robert]

Game has been paused. Ottomans still have to play and are able to play in 7-12 hours. I'm going to launch the game again in 6 hours.

Inca/Ottomans: if you're able to play earlier: please send me a PM

[Byzantium (DoC)]

India - sorry my reply to you earlier was rather pointed. I agree with much that you say in your lastest post. Its all about balance, and there are always going to be different views of that, and as Persia says, different levels of involvement in conflicts. What is remarkable, is that we manage to keep this going so well despite our different interests and viewpoints. us all

[Persia (DoC)]

I've said either we make a rule (probably impossible) or just leave the game going as it goes.

Not a rule, we must just all restrain ourselves a bit now and then. And explore the more subtle forms of help. (which expands diplomacy a lot).
Leave the barking to Greece and Arabia, and support with upgrades or money or some army gifting....

Not for every conflict of course. sometimes intervene, sometimes don't. Depends on the situation. Some nations have an intervention character (America like), others don't (China like), others have 'help sneakily' (Russia-like). Others help by barking (France-like).

There's so much between not helping and full-scale war.

All those possibilities, like India paying Greece a lot of money and some upgrades to seize a city of Arabia, that contains coal. In return Greece gives to coal to India. Nobody knows India is behind it. Well, that kinda stuff.

We have a much richer diplo and story world if we are all more diverse and subtle. (And sometimes brutal in your face, of course.)

To me every war is like:
- do I have a story reason to intervene
- can I help a bit behind the curtain
- what will happen if I help

And for the record, I'm not saying that you do wrong and we do right. I have done this as well myself (intervention), and I'm not better. I'm more evil though 8)

[Persia (DoC)]

I knew it was the coal resource 8)

[Greece (DoC)]

From the outside, for what it is worth (from someone who has been following along the story line for a couple months):

I did find the post from India a bit unusual, especially since it seems to preference the discussion of worrying about Greece with a statement that would indicate total lack of interest in the situation. I also found very unusual the lack of any indication that the things which have occupied India's thoughts for generations now were at play. The post itself almost read more OOC than in character.

But given the effort that the India player has made in pursuit of role-playing, I assumed that there would be follow-up to make the matter more in-character clear. Perhaps the issue for Persia is that it wasn't any more clear to that player than it was to me.

if america suddenly had no source of uranium and new zealand offerred a deal to supply it... a new relationship commences...

[India (DoC)]

What's left to do for a civ like Arabia in a game like this if we follow your opinion?

I can ask similar things..What is left for diplo if we follow your opinion?. Anyway I belive I made it clear that I don't have a good answer to any of these questions we are talking about.
but to try to answer:
-be part of an alliance.. I know some says it's a less fun than to be a big dog and do what you want without allies, but are we rp-ing real-like situations or try to make the game even more artificial?
-This is mostly an rp game, some could have fun without any war, or with many wars and losing all of them (I had fun in previous game and i was not near the top-(btw we could drop the anonimity already.. we all know who plays which civ )
-The current situation is more complicated than the Inca-Egypt war. Egypt had lots of friends and even if your opinion is shared with Byzantium they intervened there (as claimed by some ).. In the current conflict Arab rightfully expected that Greece is an abandoned nation anyway so no one would care.. I don't know if anyone truly had a defensive pact with them.

I've said either we make a rule (probably impossible) or just leave the game going as it goes. Arabs probably could have get away if they take only one city and make peace, but they took 3 and demanded 2 permamently which is too much for the greek player and asked for help.

[Greece (DoC)]

Byzantium says exactly what I had in mind but worded very poorly.
But I guess this is an opinion shared by Byzantium, Ozzy and me, while others have a different opinion. I'll accept that.

But I'd like to ask India and Korea one question: What's left to do for a civ like Arabia in a game like this if we follow your opinion?

and greece and inca and...

for goodness sake get devious, be into behind the scenes diplomacy.... get proactive all us small civs!!!

why did inca not get its diplomacy in place before attacking egypt? why did they not coordinate with a western power to cause diversion for byzantium?

think strategic!

don't cower into little civ and say nothing i can do!

the game isn't in the game turn... it's in between that counts... PM's!

[Greece (DoC)]

And I thought we had a rule about IG subs had to be declared. Why don't we follow it? Why are we always only being told afterwards?

correct me if i'm wrong but only in game players with vested interests need to be declared.

[Persia (DoC)]

Byzantium says exactly what I had in mind but worded very poorly.
But I guess this is an opinion shared by Byzantium, Ozzy and me, while others have a different opinion. I'll accept that.

But I'd like to ask India and Korea one question: What's left to do for a civ like Arabia in a game like this if we follow your opinion?

[Korea (DoC)]

because there was no subsittution simpyl someon able to utilise the software under compelte control.

very different to usal but as it became an issie it has been addressed