The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[Korea (DoC)]

5th spot in points is not where i would have placed myself at start of game and is however where i am.

obviously it makes me a traget for the top 4 civs, as they aware i not good enough to actualy combat them in a war. it also makes me a target for the lower points civs.

so we will see how long i remain there.

but to me a good player is found in top 3 , and over time will consistently be there and will win many of the MP games.

So yes i feel lucky to be where i am, reality is not played any differently apart from some extra micromanaging and trying to paly everyturn, overall strategy is same as always.

[Persia (DoC)]

You're doing quite well for a poor player, mr. Korea.

[Korea (DoC)]

the best player will always win it is what they deserve.

Doesnt matter what civ they pick or traits.

It is simply they are better, a poor player will not know how to use his traits to any advantage (like me) poor players tend to jsut play and see what happens.

[OzzyKP]

There is no doubt that some traits - especially in a builder-focused diplo game are much more useful than others. It is also clear that good players rise to the top in every game regardless of which traits they pick. Which is why I've always been against top players using powerful traits, they don't need that extra boost.

I've always liked the Spiritual trait. It isn't a passive trait like Fin, so it isn't terribly useful for poor players, but in the right hands it can do a lot.

[Persia (DoC)]

A financial trait is quite useless if you have an aggressive neighbour that pillages all your mature cottages!!!! *hate*

[Byzantium (DoC)]

Interesting - and thanks as always for the stats Robert.

I knew when picking mine - Spiritual and Imperialistic - I was picking ones which are generally seen as very weak, but that was the challenge. I seem to have managed to get it to work though, but there is a lot of luck involved there too.

The big thing, I'd say, is making the most of your traits. Since diplo tends to end up quite builder orientated - in that its hard to really make war pay - I think that does favour some traits more than others. The number of players also makes a difference. And of course lots of luck - I can see some folks would love to have used their traits more, but couldn't (were boxed in etc.)

[Russia (DoC)]

well Specialist Economies kick off faster than cottage economies usually, so philosophical civs may often get a good start (been doing some experimenting on Emperor level, seems cottages won't work well enough to keep up, unless Financial). but as said, Financial does give a considerable bonus to cash production. Which in my opinion is far more advantageous throughout the game than many other traits. faster tech, more cash to pay for maintenance and units. greater bonuses from the % increase from markets/libraries, it all adds up continuously and becomes stronger as the game grows on as opposed to the short term bonus of getting early GP, or getting cheaper settlers.

I've tried to make use of Imperalistic in a lot of Emperor level test games, but it usually is not valuable on higher difficult levels as wars are a greater drain on resources and 3 cities will completely tank a poorly developed economy. In multiplayer it is valuable, but as shown, if a hostile neighbour exists, it is far less worth as resources that could/should have been used for REXing must be used on strong defences. the trait simply loses its advantage in those situations.

Strangely, I find Charismatic to be one of the better traits, completely underrepresented in this game. (if I could choose I would have gone with a Chm civ, but that will have to wait for next game )

[Persia (DoC)]

Looking at your current score I can only say that I'm glad that you didn't got your first, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th pick

[India (DoC)]

It's true that some traits are better than the others, but it's more important to know how to use a trait to get the most from it. Financial doesnt worth much without cottages, ind. without building wonders etc. I didn't want to play with India.. my first pick was Egypt, then Rome, then Greece, then England , then Inca.. I'd had played them differently.
My favoritve leader btw-and I think She's the strongest-is Elizabeth, followed by Huana Capac. I've never really played with Pericles but He should be very strong for an early combo: cheap library, put two scientist into it early-> getting academy quick. Also cheap libraries+cheap universities->building Oxford u. is easier.

[Robert]

Some facts to support the trait debate.
Best avg trait: Fin
Best trait positions: Spir (1st and 2nd), Phil (1st and 3rd), Imp (2nd) and Fin (3th and 4th)

Worst avg trait: Ind

Best balanced traits: Spir, Imp, Phi, Org

Weirdest trait: Fin (pos 3 t/m 8!)

Discuss

							Prot	Spir	Imp	Cre	Phi	Fin	Org 	Ind	exp
1	India	Mahatma Ghandi	Phil	Spir	977		x			x				
2	Byzanti	Justinian I	Imp	Spir	817		x	x						
3	England	Elizabeth	Phil	Fin	789					x	x			
4	Persia	Darius I	Fin	Org	785						x	x		
5	Korea	Wang Kon	fin	prot	643	x					x			
6	Mali	Mansa Musa	fin	spir	627		x				x			
7	Inca	Huayna Capac	Ind	Fin	622						x		x	
8	Britann	Willem van O	Cre	Fin	614				x		x			
9	Natives	Sitting Bull	Phil	Prot	592	x				x				
10	Russia	Catherine	Cre	Imp	584			x	x					
11	Ottoman	Mehmed II	exp	org	553							x		x
12	Egypt	Ramesses II	Ind	Spir	528		x						x	
13	Rome	Augustus	Imp	Ind	492			x					x	
14	Arabia	Saladin		Prot	Spir	474	x	x							
15	Greece	Pericles	Cre	Phil	444				x	x				
	avg position:					9,3	7	8,3	11	7	5,5	7,5	10,6	11

[Robert]

Score charts on page 1 of this thread have been updated.

[Persia (DoC)]

I'm sorry for being financial
I picked the leader because it never had been picked before and because I wanted to run an evil story maybe ending with Ahmedinedhad. And organised was a main reason for me to pick it.
I also believe that being organized helped me more then being financial. It's not for no reason that I was able to settle that many cities.

[Russia (DoC)]

i still say the financial trait is unbalanced. it's like having a constant golden age in cash...

[India (DoC)]

Neither are we.

(and again: drop the ooc talk in the story thread pls.. I dunno how many times I have to ask it :/)

[Byzantium (DoC)]

Byzantium isn't financial!