Beyond the Pit -Argument and Debate Thread

[Pitboss Maya]

I'm sad to see that some people prefer a black-white situation where the solutions are easy.

I don't want to burst your bubble Cyber, but it has to be black and white.

Gray is what leads us to this.

Well, that is two players down. Anyone else want to bail?

[Pitboss Japan]

Just to be clear. Who bailed?

[The Capo]

I believe Russia and Greece have left.

We need a save from 1635 ad to continue the game, as well as a sub for both civs.

That is, if everyone agrees to continue.

[Heraclitus]

wtf. WTF! Guys, what the **** where you thinking?



I can't belive this, I've just read this thread. This is a great shame for diploing you just cost the community two players, probably for good. And this game was such a bright hope for diplo when it started...




I hope you have learned your lesson.

[Toni]

load the game from last turn cybershy

[MMC]

I suggest the following:

• No one quit just because they're frustrated...
• Make sure the saves for 1630 onwards are all archived and accessible for the future.
• Put this game on hold indefinitely.
• Organise a new game for those of us who would rather play Civ than argue.
• Come back to this in a year or so, when all have calmer heads and decide how we want to continue.

If people are happy to work with this, I'll look into setting up a new game for people to discuss. I have a few ideas which should make for a faster game with better defined rules (and less restrictions). Assuming there are no objections, I'll start a new setup thread this evening (GMT)

[OzzyKP]

That might be our best solution to this mess... I don't see either side giving an inch.

[Robert]

I don't see either side giving an inch.

I've given in about 100 inch already.
- not moving/upgrading for 1 turn to compensate Capo for not moving on purpose
- tone down defence of Knossos to 1645 to give Capo a chance
- offering to tone down defence of Knossos once again after Capo didn't move last weekend, most probably because he was drunk
- I handed over the GE after the judges ruled so

Now tell me that's not a lot of inches, and tell me how Capo/Maya tried to come a few inches closer to us?

BTW, the rules state that a reload is only needed if damage has been done.
See org thread 1, 2, 3 and 4.
Since the GE was returned, no damage was done to Korea. No need for a reload thus.

#1 Not me but WE TOGETHER combined with the Judges said that no reload was needed
#2 the rules don't ask for a reload
what are we talking about?????

[Robert]

From the Rules in Org Thread #1

If damage has been done then the game will be reloaded back to the last available save on the Pitboss Server.

From the Rules in Org Thread #2

If damage has been done then the game will be reloaded back to the last available save on the Pitboss Server.

From the Rules in Org Thread #3

If damage has been done then the game will be reloaded back to the last available save on the Pitboss Server.

From the Rules in Org Thread #4

If damage has been done then the game will be reloaded back to the last available save on the Pitboss Server.

When the GE was returned, no damage had been done to Korea, so no reason to reload, like the rules say.

this is my last post here (yeah, sure, I know you dutchy!).

[Pitboss Celts]

HOLY SH!T are we still arguing this? I thought this was done and over and we were ready to move on once Cyber's connection was complete. I'm sad to see our host leave. Better to have 2 people leave now than more people leave while this argument continues to go nowhere.

[The Capo]

Well it doesn't matter because Cyber and Toni have decided to continue the game from 1665 and I am sure a bunch of you are going to do that because you don't seem to actually care about the rules until they directly effect you. I personally thought we should have reloaded to the right turn (1635) and got on with it, but I guess it doesn't matter.

Pinchak was completely right; it didn't even matter what the "independent judges" said, it didn't matter if Ozzy even told them about the whole rule or not, or the fact that everything that happened after turn 1635 was under the auspice of an illegal double move that was not only written by the host but also broken by the host was of no REAL consequence. All that mattered was which side Cyber was on and which side the Capo was on.

Cyber trashed me for no reason. You may not like me guys, but I never ****ing lie, and I would never do what he did, EVER. This is the biggest load of garbage I have ever seen. I got dicked, and when it was finally coming out that this happened Cyber throws a hissy-fit, quits, and then voila; his boys come to the rescue and decide (without saying it of course) to kick Pinchak and I out under the guise that they are continuing a game under circumstances they know I can't accept. Pinchak you need to change your noobs guide a little, because in the end even a guy like Toni succumbs to the clique of vets.

I am going to CivFanatics with the Diplogaming concept. If anyone wants to join me feel free to PM me here (or there I have the same handle). You can AIM me at LBPBumout@aol.com or MSNIM me at DiploCapo@live.com.

[The Capo]

From the Rules in Org Thread #1

If damage has been done then the game will be reloaded back to the last available save on the Pitboss Server.

From the Rules in Org Thread #2

If damage has been done then the game will be reloaded back to the last available save on the Pitboss Server.

From the Rules in Org Thread #3

If damage has been done then the game will be reloaded back to the last available save on the Pitboss Server.

From the Rules in Org Thread #4

If damage has been done then the game will be reloaded back to the last available save on the Pitboss Server.

When the GE was returned, no damage had been done to Korea, so no reason to reload, like the rules say.

this is my last post here (yeah, sure, I know you dutchy!).

By the way Cyber, in light of recent events I sincerely believe that you need to seek mental help.

That's the last thing I'll say here.

So long suckers.

[OzzyKP]

Yea, that's right Capo. It is all a huge conspiracy by us "vets" to "oppress" you "pros". We had a vote not too long ago about whether to reload. Guess what, not a single "vet" was against you. Khmer & Portugal voted to reload, and I abstained. Everyone else though, who was sick of your bellyaching, voted to just keep playing because they knew this petty argument was destroying the game.

But I guess you three would much rather the game be destroyed (even the diplogame concept) than back down. So **** it, I hope you three are happy.

Yes, reload to 1630.
Portugal
Khmer
Korea
Maya

No, don't reload, keep playing.
Funglish
Rome
Greece
Japan
Wyandots

Abstain.
Metalheads
Celts

[Robert]

to kick Pinchak and I out under the guise that they are continuing a game under circumstances they know I can't accept.

You can join us and so can Maya.
I have promised to keep the defence of Knossos low for another turn (I think the odds are 50/50)

Are there any other parts of this game where you think you have been disadvantaged?
Or is it just this Knossos thing? (where I disagree with you, but I'm willing to approach you, can we meet in the middle?)

[Pitboss Natives]

Ok...although it may not even matter at this point...for the sake of some sort of normalcy in the game, The Wyandot Nation changes their vote to "Reload the Game."

At least with a relaod, the game can (hopefully) move forward since we are currently getting no where.