Possible Diplogame Mod

[OzzyKP]

Eh, I just grabbed it from the mod I was working on. And... the damn tags didn't show up. But yea, that is what you need to do. You are right that the actual text is elsewhere, so if you want to be fancy about it you could edit the text file instead, but this works just as well. For simple things like this I honestly don't know why Firaxis put all these text tags into a separate text file. Seems like it just complicates the code.

[Pitboss Korea]

Okay everyone, now THIS one I'm going to need some help with so hopefully people chip in some suggestions here.

Firstly, I am having trouble finding a useable XML code for a good Inquisitor unit and all of that. I will be able to do it, it just requires reading through a lot of info (some of them have ideas I don't like, and aren't compatible with BtS). But that isn't what I need. We need to be exactly SURE on what we want this unit to do. So here are a few things we should address for this unit.

1) What allows the Inquisitor to be built? Technology? National Wonder? Great Person? Civic?

2) What obseletes the Inquisitor?

3) Should you be able to use it on foreign countries?

4) Should there be a limit to the amount of Inquisitors you can build? (like missionaries)

5) What should the Inquisitor be able to do? Does it destroy all other religions? Do you pick the religion? Does it destroy the buildings?

6) When you use it what drawbacks are there? Money? Population? Disorder? Anger?

Those are just some questions I thought of, if you guys think of anything else that would be good too. Now since this is going to be the Diplogame mod it is not NECESSARY that the AI be able to use it, although that would be OPTIMUM (if that's possible) so we can use this mod in our own leisure time if we wanted to. But the main concern is giving it the abilities we think will benefit us in a diplogame. So keep that in mind when you answer these questions. I have some of my own ideas but I'll let you guys make suggestions first, and in the meantime I'll just focus on getting the XML and graphics prepared.

One more thing; all of the units in this DiploMod are unique to their civilization (so even countries like Japan and Korea, for example, have much different looking units) This is not going to be the case for the Inquisitor, it will be the same unit for everyone. So its probably going to be a European looking guy, in case anybody really cares about that.

[Pitboss Vikings]

as soon as a Religion is discovered any where the Inquisitor should be able to be built. No civilisation should have to put up with the spead of relgions it doesnt want.

While religions are still active the inquisitor should not be obsoleted.

Only use the unit in your own lands.

Only remvoes the religon of your choice from the city.

no buildings destroyed.

[OzzyKP]

1) What allows the Inquisitor to be built? Technology? National Wonder? Great Person? Civic?

Only use them when under the theology civic.

2) What obseletes the Inquisitor?

Nothing.

3) Should you be able to use it on foreign countries?

No. But this could be interesting.

4) Should there be a limit to the amount of Inquisitors you can build? (like missionaries)

Three.

5) What should the Inquisitor be able to do? Does it destroy all other religions? Do you pick the religion? Does it destroy the buildings?

The way I've seen it work in other mods is to remove all religions that aren't the state religion. I'd suggest it not remove the buildings. Being able to pick and choose which religions to remove might be preferable but it might be too difficult.

6) When you use it what drawbacks are there? Money? Population? Disorder? Anger?

Hmm, tricky. All of the above? Or some combination thereof.

[Pitboss Korea]

Okay, now I'll post what I think so far of the suggestions.

The thing about only allowing it under Theocracy is that if you are running a Theocracy anyway nobody can spread their religion into your country in the first place. I've seen other ideas for it where a Great Prophet can make a building (like Scotland Yard or the Academy) that allows you to build them in a specific city, I've also seen ideas calling for a national wonder so you had to choose which city you wanted it in (due to the limit on NWs). I personally was thinking you could use it with Organized Religion too, but if Theocracy is popular I have no problem doing that. As far as allowing it as soon as you discover a religion; this is difficult to do.

As far as obseleting it goes; I was originally thinking Liberalism, but perhaps leaving it open the whole game may work better. It would at least be interesting later on in the game too.

I think you should ONLY be able to use it within your lands or within the lands of a Vassal sharing your state religion. This is what I've seen in most of the mods and they do report that the AI uses the Inquisitor too (the correct way) so it appears that this will be useful to in SP games. I think for our purposes we will stick with this, so if you have a Vassal with the same religion you can use the Inquisitor in their land, but they must be a Vassal.

I think it actually SHOULD remove the buildings. Firstly, I don't think its fair that you get to keep the benefits of the religious buildings from a religion you purged. You could abuse the system this way quite easily, second why would you purge a city of religion but allow its temples, monasteries, and cathedrals to continue to operate? As far as choosing the religion, yes this will be very difficult, I will do more research on that. If you can choose the religion I will make that an option because you are making more of a political statement that way.

Well population loss (and by that I mean death or mass exodus) was actually NOT common, and quite rare, during the Spanish Inquisition, which is one of the better known ones. But it all depends on what we are trying to portray here. If we want this to portray more extreme versions we could have a loss of one population. I was thinking disorder and population. You are already going to lose the religious buildings (so far that's the way I personally want it to work, if you guys are against losing the buildings we can 86 that part) so by losing buildings and population and some disorder you do sacrafice a lot to get that pesky religion from your lands.

So far in other mods the cost has been around 80 hammers, do you all think this is good or should it be increased?

So here's what I'm thinking personally, and I am not going to do whatever I want here, I am really going to go with what everyone thinks is right. So when this mod is done, and if its just what we wanted we are probably going to use it for a lot of diplogames, so if you dont' say anything now you may have to deal with it in the future. But here is what I'm thinking;

Costs 80 hammers, requires Theology/Theocracy Civic, Limit of 3, Destroys non-state religions and buildings, does not go obselete, causes temporary unhappiness and loss of one population, and can only be used in your lands and those of vassals with the same state religion.

That's what I'm thinking so far, but of course I still have to figure out what my boundaries are.

[MMC]

1) What allows the Inquisitor to be built? Technology? National Wonder? Great Person? Civic?

Only created under Theocracy Civic, but useable without the civic.

2) What obseletes the Inquisitor?

Nothing. However they should be un-usable in a civ with the Free Religion civic.

3) Should you be able to use it on foreign countries?

Yes, but only if they share the same State Relgion. Perhaps require the user to also be the Relgion's founder.

4) Should there be a limit to the amount of Inquisitors you can build? (like missionaries)

They should be the functional opposites to missionaries, so limit to three.

5) What should the Inquisitor be able to do? Does it destroy all other religions? Do you pick the religion? Does it destroy the buildings?

Remove all, but State Religion. Leave the buildings, but create one unhappy face for each for a set amount of turns.

6) When you use it what drawbacks are there? Money? Population? Disorder? Anger?

Lose the benfits of the emptied religious buildings (since there's no relgions using them). Lose population at a rate of 'number of religions removed - 1' since if there is only a small group of dissenters, then killing them off wouldn't affect the population count by much. Definitely create disorder/panic/confusion. And for angry/unhappy faces see above.

[MMC]

Theocracy only prevents further spread of other religions, it doesn't remove religions that have already spread. thus the inquisitor is a way of solving that dilema.

Also, traditionally the solutions to the buildings question has been quite practical. Conversion rather than destruction. Re-use the buildings for something else.

Maybe, once the initial anger has died down, you could convert the buildings into taverns or something and get a small amount of gold or happiness, or something, but not as much as the religous building used to produce.

[Pitboss Korea]

Well we can't do too much to change the way the game works, like I can't edit everything so it converts the buildings. I think they should be destroyed personally, and the Theocracy thing is fine, that should be a prereq. But I really think the buildings should be destroyed too. ALso I don't see the point of leaving the buildings but also removing their benefits, it seems pointless and easier to just destroy them.

[MMC]

Regarding the buildings, fair enough. The game mechanics do allow for disabling buildings (basically you obselete them), but if destroying is easier, then fine. I have no problem with that.

[Pitboss Vikings]

what if someone has played to a no Religion in his nation, he wont be researching to Theocracy so he cant expel others relgions tihs is silly.

If someone has an atheist leader he should be able to expel the relgions too.

Just my .02 cent sworth.

[The Capo]

In the mod I am planning on integrating you can only build them under Organized Religion and Theocracy. We may change this to just Theocracy, but there are no plans to make it so an atheist leader can use it, unless you put it on no state religion but I am not exactly sure that will work either. I can see if there is a way to maek it so you can practice militant atheism, but I'm not exactly sure we need to go that far.

Another thing I came accross were UN Military units. They have a UN Peacekeeper (like a Marine) a UN Mech. Infantry, a UN Land Personnel carrier and a UN Helicoptor which I think carries personnel too. I was toying with the idea of giving the ability to create these units to the player who builds the UN. This may be too much though and I think I would make the benefit either that it has hidden nationality and could enter enemy territory or what, but again, this may be too much for our purposes. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

[Pitboss Vikings]

ok capo, i happy for you guys to decide to stop a non religous person clearing out the religions.

obviouslky all you guys play to research relgfion so it fits your style.

[MMC]

What you must remember, Ras, is that it is only in the last century or so that Atheism has become somethime of a religion in its own right. Previously, it was more akin to the "Don't Care" choice. Therefore, 99% of Atheists aren't likely to bother with an Inquisition, and the other 1% aren't likely to appear until the very end of the game.

[The Capo]

Ras, no offense (how many posts have I started with those words recently?) but I can't tell what you are trying to say. Please be more clear in your posts.

And as far as MMC's comment; I am an atheist Ras and I certainly don't go around purging religions, and I also don't go around telling other people to be atheists. Its part of being an atheist really. So I disagree with what you are saying and further am a little offended by it.

[The Capo]

Also @MMC: How is the progress so far on the voting thing?