Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread]

[Pitboss Persia]

I made my suggestion, and i would always suggest a battle on the field for settling differences, rather then reloading the game, especially with 17 other people having no reason to reload.

If i was Maya, i would have kept the worker, and had ensured the border agreement I (the conquerer) want to be respected by patroling the borders I choose. But it's diplo, so i would have been reasonable about that border.

Do as if nothing never happened, fine, you just miss a good chance to get some fun.

As for the double-move matter... just don't do it. Wait 1/3 of the turn timer between two moves at least. You know it's wrong.

[Pitboss Japan]

wait i'm not done....shhhh they will come for me soon......mark my words "pros" bu the time this game is over i will find each and every one of you and i will personally take your cities and burn all of them to the ground. jsut cuz im alittle drunk dont mean ..............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... ..i'm not going to kick your butts.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Vampgelus]

What makes you believe a "veteran" player will win this game Maya ? As far as I know, Ozzy the Bateater is last on score. I don't know who the other "veteran" players are, but it would surprise me if the top 5 civs were all controlled by "veterans".

I promise, you will get some surprises during this game

BtW : What says us you are not one of the veteran players, if you know so much about HOTW12 ? No offense intended of course.

[Pitboss Maya]

Don't worry, all will be explained in an upcomming post.

What says us you are not one of the veteran players

I became one once making this revelation, and soon all of you will be too!

[MMC]

I would be intruiged as to whether or not people consider me a "Pro" or "Veteran" player... I'd say I'm not but opinions may vary.

Also I think Maya wins the prize for the most confusing post in this thread so far (sorry Japan).

As for the double move vote, I think I must Abstain. I think double moving is a Bad Thing™ but every fixed rule we have detracts just that little bit from making the game fun, since you can end up having to double-check every little thing you do. Also I want to be able to offer myself up as a neutral party in these arguments, and so I want to avoid anything that might be seen as a conflict of interest.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Pitboss Maya


Leaving it open without defined perameters allows it to be deemed "ok" (or bad form) in one situation, and cheating in another. On top of that, how does one with honest intentions decide when to make his second move so as not to be accused of cheating if we never defined what a double move is?

Unless of course keeping it nice and vauge is intended.

I know a little something about how the "pros" win on a consistant basis. I don't have time now, but I am blowing the cover on this **** so new players are not caught off guard.

Back in HOTW7 I wondered why Levi had such bloodlust for you Ozzy, why he would flush his civ down the toilet just so you couldn't win. I now understand.

The jig is up. I'm letting the cat out of the bag.

Originally posted by Vampgelus
What makes you believe a "veteran" player will win this game Maya ? As far as I know, Ozzy the Bateater is last on score. I don't know who the other "veteran" players are, but it would surprise me if the top 5 civs were all controlled by "veterans".

I promise, you will get some surprises during this game

BtW : What says us you are not one of the veteran players, if you know so much about HOTW12 ? No offense intended of course.

I've got a very good guess about the Maya.

As I stated earlier in the planning of this game there is an extremely strong trend of the same players being ahead and winning each and every game. Pretty much every diplogame is dominated by me, Toni and Deity.

I'm not going to guess why this is the reality, but it is a very real fact. This is why I insisted that Toni, Deity and I not pick any Financial or Industrious leaders. I think those are strong traits in a diplogame and often are abused by us. So I insisted on handicapping ourselves a bit in the interests of a good, competitive game. I

If Maya are implying that we somehow bend the rules to help ourselves win then I couldn't disagree more.

If he is implying what I think he is, and if Maya is who I think Maya is, then perhaps he is harboring resentment over past events in diplogames and should consider that before continuing in throwing around accusations and insinuations.

But if there is a very serious, and unbiased, concern about fairplay in this or other games, then by all means please bring some specific examples to light. Any discussion that encourages more fairplay and balance is healthy.

[Pitboss Vikings]

Originally posted by Pitboss Japan
This is not the diplo it is a dictatorship. This game is ruled by a few players who I don’t have to say their names but they know who they are. We are all subject to what only small handfuls want. If this is truly diplo where are the other players? Should we not all be involved or is it the opinion of the "pros" that matters? I for one do not want to be subject by what other civs who I have yet to meet think. I will not rest until my people are free from the tyranny that is happening here.

DIPLO is not Democratic where everything requires a vote. It is a way of playing civ unlike any other, played by people who like the social interaction as much as the game, it was never about winning or losing, though over time as more people joined the diplo game it has changed to be more like the other civ games except it has stories too, tht is not what DIPLO was about when created.

[Pitboss Vikings]

the more i read about the winners of past DIPLO games the more i realise that DIPLO has changed. I glad you for those that wante dit changed t oget more players. I jsut sad that it changed from what i liked.

Doesnt mean it worng or right just differnet

i would like to see less of the players trying to iwn this thing and more of it being about the palying, not who is the PRO or VETERAN

[deity]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
I've got a very good guess about the Maya.

Damn, I can't work it out!! Wish I could!

Hey ozzy, am I a pro OR a veteran... don't answer that

Seriously, if players are playing to try and work out who the pros are and to take them down, well, I feel sorry for you - in more ways than one!

I really don't like the insinuations going on here. ozzy is a totally honourable player and Levi got it SO wrong in HOTW 7. Besides, Ozzy won that game fair and square. Well, if you think him and Toni ganging up on deity is fair...

[OzzyKP]

I think he meant HOTW9 or 10 or whatever it was. The game where you were the Ottomans, I was England, and kbarrett was India.

In that game I started next to the Zulu and he rushed me as early as possible. Pretty much made me a non-factor for most of the game (together with my crappy land).

[OzzyKP]

dp

[LzPrst]

Do I have to bring my legal capacities in here to sort this out? You really, really, really don't want that.


A short summary will have to suffice.
The discussion concerning double moves were "in what manner should it be prevented". From that it should be clear to all that it is not to be used.

It is not a cheat. A cheat is a reworking of game mechanics, which would incur banishment from the game without mercy, and possibly a beating, depending on where the perpetrator lives.

The double move is an EXPLOIT of game mechanics, and as such, should be avoided. Maya, you should have known better.

However, as the benefit of doing so was minimal, a stern warning should suffice.


As for declaring war without any notice or announcement, that was a breach of Diplogame Protocol. Which is the basis for this whole game. If people are not willing to follow those guidelines, then they should NOT be playing this game.

Again, Maya has attempted to rectify this by posting in the story thread, and hopefully will have learned from the great outcry that followed, that it is not acceptable behaviour, and as such should be wise enough not to repeat it.


Using a moment of uncertainty and discussion to continue and escalate the base of the problem by attacking the worker, is also a matter of great concern. However, it seems the feuding parties have reached some agreement. Again, I believe Maya has taken the critique to heart and learned from this.

I believe that all of this should serve as an example and reminder that we are playing a diplogame and certain rules follow. Those are listed in the FAQ, and all should be aware that a double move is an EXPLOIT and is (or definitively should be) PROHIBITED. The exact details are still unclear.


Furthermore. Corea, you were right to bring a breach of Diplogame protocol and use of double move exploit to the attention of the community. Your lack of faith in our ability to correct the situation, is however... most disturbing.

In conclusion. I believe Maya has realized that protocol is important. An agreement that is acceptable to Corea is all the "punishment" required. Corea I hope has realized that the Diplogame community does not approve of protocol breach and will deal with it accordingly, by condemnation and possibly even expulsion of a repeat offender. Vikings, I hope you also take to heart that you are part of a community here, and as such decisions affect all members, and as such should be made by consensus, not unilateral ultimatums. This goes to Corea as well.

Another few notes. Ozzy, the exact reason for anonymous play was to avoid this kind of bias that would lead to OOC conflict. Sod you, for so blatantly disregarding that with your choice of civ and leader name, and behold the ensuing accusations resulting from it. They are partly your fault. Maya, I believe your accusations are excessive and unfair. Please do us all a favor and leave your OOC anger at the door.
Japan, a breach of Diplogame protocol, AND an exploit is the concern of the community, not merely the individual player. Most other affairs however are subject to the rules you lined out. Nations who have not met have no say in eachothers matters. PLAYERS however, must be allowed to make complaints when given sufficient cause to do so, and as said before, the community should then consider what a reasonable response is, if any.

Now. Please, please, don't blow this up any further. I hope everyone has learned something here. And the most important lesson should be that we as a community must be able to solve our PLAYER - PLAYER disputes in open discussion. As a community.

[Robert]

LzPrst's post is the last post on this issue to avoid further escalation. I think his post sums it up pretty well.

Regarding the 8 hours rule, we've discussed this here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...&pagenumber=18 (follow the thread further)

There was no opposition against the 8 hours (1/3 turn) rule and thus it was established. Not as a laywer or a politician would establish it, but it was established nevertheless. No need to discuss it again.

Let it not happen again (in war situations)

All have fun again. I'm really enjoying this game!

[Toni]

I'm really enjoying this game!

10x

[Pitboss Japan]

Originally posted by LzPrst
Do I have to bring my legal capacities in here to sort this out? You really, really, really don't want that.


A short summary will have to suffice.
The discussion concerning double moves were "in what manner should it be prevented". From that it should be clear to all that it is not to be used.

It is not a cheat. A cheat is a reworking of game mechanics, which would incur banishment from the game without mercy, and possibly a beating, depending on where the perpetrator lives.

The double move is an EXPLOIT of game mechanics, and as such, should be avoided. Maya, you should have known better.

However, as the benefit of doing so was minimal, a stern warning should suffice.


As for declaring war without any notice or announcement, that was a breach of Diplogame Protocol. Which is the basis for this whole game. If people are not willing to follow those guidelines, then they should NOT be playing this game.

Again, Maya has attempted to rectify this by posting in the story thread, and hopefully will have learned from the great outcry that followed, that it is not acceptable behaviour, and as such should be wise enough not to repeat it.


Using a moment of uncertainty and discussion to continue and escalate the base of the problem by attacking the worker, is also a matter of great concern. However, it seems the feuding parties have reached some agreement. Again, I believe Maya has taken the critique to heart and learned from this.

I believe that all of this should serve as an example and reminder that we are playing a diplogame and certain rules follow. Those are listed in the FAQ, and all should be aware that a double move is an EXPLOIT and is (or definitively should be) PROHIBITED. The exact details are still unclear.


Furthermore. Corea, you were right to bring a breach of Diplogame protocol and use of double move exploit to the attention of the community. Your lack of faith in our ability to correct the situation, is however... most disturbing.

In conclusion. I believe Maya has realized that protocol is important. An agreement that is acceptable to Corea is all the "punishment" required. Corea I hope has realized that the Diplogame community does not approve of protocol breach and will deal with it accordingly, by condemnation and possibly even expulsion of a repeat offender. Vikings, I hope you also take to heart that you are part of a community here, and as such decisions affect all members, and as such should be made by consensus, not unilateral ultimatums. This goes to Corea as well.

Another few notes. Ozzy, the exact reason for anonymous play was to avoid this kind of bias that would lead to OOC conflict. Sod you, for so blatantly disregarding that with your choice of civ and leader name, and behold the ensuing accusations resulting from it. They are partly your fault. Maya, I believe your accusations are excessive and unfair. Please do us all a favor and leave your OOC anger at the door.
Japan, a breach of Diplogame protocol, AND an exploit is the concern of the community, not merely the individual player. Most other affairs however are subject to the rules you lined out. Nations who have not met have no say in eachothers matters. PLAYERS however, must be allowed to make complaints when given sufficient cause to do so, and as said before, the community should then consider what a reasonable response is, if any.

Now. Please, please, don't blow this up any further. I hope everyone has learned something here. And the most important lesson should be that we as a community must be able to solve our PLAYER - PLAYER disputes in open discussion. As a community.

this was far from short......... yet it hit home.