"A History of the World XII" Planning/Sign-Up Thread...

[Toni]

Oh my Capo I can't wait to read you story posts, once they start rolling out

Well I have a question what about civ picking how will we do that?

Will we allow people to pick the same civ as others and just rename them - or go with the only one civ allowed rule like previous diplos?

I think it would be easier if we just go and pick whatever we like and have the civ renamed - this will make for a fast setup and allow ppl to pick what they enjoy playing with.

OK so are we are going with a premade map which Ozzy will build for us (unequal distribution resources which will spice diplo much). We still using Earth map and just have him change things around or have him build something else for us. If the latter what kind of map?

[Pinchak]

I vote "no double civs".

We should draw straws to decide the order in which we choose.

[The Capo]

Yeah, sorry about that, I kinda blew up there. But I felt as if I was being disparaged, and I also feel like I was jsut being realistic about things and speaking my mind. I didn't mean to offend anyone personally, so honestly if you would like to play an anonymous game I'll play. I just don't think it will work out.

Now, we really should move on from that issue, the game will be anonymous.

Now as far as choosing the civs, anonymous play adds another issue; how are we going to choose our civs anonymously? Who is in charge of the map and thus our starting positions? Or are the starts random? And if this is the case how are the resources distributed (I think that I was one of the reasons we are using a pre-made map)?

These are all things we need to discuss, I think our next step now that we've "agreed" on the anonymous thing we should find a map/map-maker to create our world.

So I think everyone is running with a Large map. My game has been acting up lately, so I am going to try and test connection with my dad today, hopefully it works out good for me.

Alright, to sum up; we need to agree on a map now, and if we want a premade map get a guy to make one or agree on one that is already made.

I say Large is fine, and I am willing to play with whatever map everyone agrees on.

[The Capo]

As far as double civs goes; I wouldn't advise if, but if someone really wants to do it they have to come up with some type of explaination in the story thread. For that matter I think it would be cool if someone did pick a double civ (and by the way, since we are anonymous we can't find out who everyone picked until they've all been picked) and the map-maker put the two close to eachother so its almost as if it is one nationality from the same region but with two governments.

It is almost like Austria and Germany, sort of.

[Toni]

Haha YES with anonymous play how will we pick civs? Maybe have CS now that he is not playing help us, then when he has a player-civ list ready he can send it to Ozzy who will set our map.

OK here is an idea have CS ask us privately in his order what civ we want, he can contact each of us via pm. Maybe he can pick the order (I don’t care) then when the 1st person has picked his civ - just take out that choice and let the 2nd pick with what is left and ect

SIMPLE?

I think that is a good solution to how to pick civs for HOTW12

[LzPrst]

dammit guys! why is it that I can't be away from these threads for 2 days without world war 3 starting??


seriously. everyone needs to calm down.

Okay, first thing's first. Capo. that kind of language is not necessary, nor is it appropriate. I understand your need to vent, but acting like a vice president is no way for a civilized man to behave. I understand your anger at being accused of sabotage, but the both of you seem to be picking out the worst of each others statements and retorting to them by escalating the exchange.

Capo, you haven't been here in a while and as such I don't expect you to read through the hundreds of posts made in your absence. Nor do I expect you to be quiet when you're in disagreement. Everyone has his voice, even if they're not playing everyone is entitled to his opinion. And since you are playing we are in fact expecting you to voice yours, in a respectful manner.

Here's what has been said. We want to try anonymous play. there was a general consensus that it would be interesting to try. I understand your reluctance, and people have attempted to explain the rationale behind anonymous playing. That you could perhaps have looked into, but I'm not expecting it as it is a lot to sift through when you can get the summary from us far faster and easier. Namely that OOC stuff, including accusations however baseless, surface because of underlying suspicions and all kinds of other stuff, and that it ruins the game. It seems to be prevalent in a lot of our games. Again and again. Anonymous playing was a suggestion that was fronted to take care of these issues.


First of all. Making Anonymous Playing work is a cooperative effort. It is partly about masking your play/write-style and partly about NOT speculating too much in who is who. Even if you can figure out which Civ is which player, it won't do you any good as you wouldn't be able to bring it up in OOC. If you did, well, that should be considered a breach of etiquette by the other player, borderline cheating. Imagine if your speculation is mistaken?

I am not saying that YOU would, I am outlining the reasons for why people would want to stay IC. I believe that Anonymous play has merit. I don't really understand how limiting communication between players to IC only can possibly be a bad thing. And we won't know until we've tried. And that is partly where my biggest beef about your verbiage lies. You are so dead certain that it won't work, but you haven't tried it. Your opposition is so fierce, yet you have no more prescience than the rest of us, and though your speculations towards our nature suggests that it won't work, you can't know for sure, and furthermore, just because people agree doesn't make it right, but that doesn't make you right either, nor does it give you the right to make claims that what the rest of us have worked out in cooperation is impossible. So let's all stop acting like we've got all the answers and reign in all our attacks, blustering, ultimatums and tantrums. Save it for the game!

As it seems there is a general vote in favor of anonymous playing and as such I feel we owe it to the people who have played game after game to at least give it a fair try since it is those same people who, in your absence, thought of it, worked a way for it to be implemented and agreed that it would be good for the game. The only way we can make this work is if we have a respect for the will of the majority, as there are as many opinions as there are people present, the only way we can agree is if we agree to compromise. Acknowledging that compromise is essential to the life of this community seems lacking in your posts, I assume you expected us to inherently conclude that underneath your bombastic statements you wholly agree with that, but where there is room for misunderstanding people will find misunderstanding. Your posts are so negative towards anonymous playing that they seem ultimatum-like, they even seem to indicate that you won't try to make it work.
Despite what you assume, we have as Cyber outlined, worked out a way for Anonymous playing to be implemented without serious difficulty. A standard Apolyton login 'Diplogamer-Arabia' agreed to be given by Ming, and if needed, the same for an icq/hotmail/irc/whatever account, as long as we agree beforehand what client to use to make it easier on everyone.





Second item on my list. The endgame winner takes it all issue. This is a problem that we discuss before and after every diplogame. Every time someone loses interest because of the static diplomacy and alliances, and the lack of influence in the endgame. Ozzy's point system was an attempt at balancing this by awarding score for non-game mechanic efforts, storytelling, diploing and strategy. However, in my opinion the system was flawed. I say that because the votes were only given at the very end of the game, when the first sessions were lost in antiquity. As a possible reparation to this I have suggested several times, that we vote every 75 turns, and at the end of the game tally up the score to see who got what. With this system it would be impossible to see who is in the lead and there won't be that many people assuming they're doomed to lose, and it will keep people vying for those rich posts and interesting diplomatics to get those points all the way to the end.

It will hopefully keep the game lively and interesting for ALL from start to finish.







And thirdly, and finally. I strongly oppose duplicate civs, it just doesn't seem right. And as for Germany and Austria, in BtS Holy Roman Empire is pretty much Austria...
As for the choosing of civs, I suspect that if everyone sends a PM to Ming or Cyber or whoever should be in charge (obviously not Cyber if he is playing) with our request for desired Civ, then likely too many people won't have chosen the same thing. I say we start with sending a PM with our desired civs. If there are a lot of identical choices, we'll draw lots, or people can put in alternatives if their initial choice is taken. It isn't that hard. Once it is done and people have their new 'Diplogame-America' logins, we'll start up 2 threads, and organization for all the "i can't play this weekend etc", and a story thread for well... all the great storying that will come along.

[deity]

Anonymouse play

[ written prior to seeing lz's post ]

A lot of this was discussed ages ago guys.

1) Cyber has already organised with Ming to set up special diplogame Apolyton logins. We use these logins for the story thread of HOTW12.

2) Now, as individuals we all set up another Gamespy Lobby login so that when we go in to the Staging Room I might be "Diplogamer4" NOT "Apolyton_deity" (my usual Gamespy login.

3) So, in the Staging Room with these anonymous logins we can select our civs. If two players pick the same civ I don't think it matters but lets have a rule that you can't pick the same civ leader.

Otherwise, if the majority want unique civs we follow Toni's idea and pre-select through a 3rd party like Cyber.

Remember all, the key point I was making about anonymous play is that the players who commit to this game must genuinely commit to keeping their player identity anonymous. This requires everyone to believe it can work - a positive approach.

I know it can work if we all want it to - speak infrequently and cryptically in game chat; don't try and work out who the players are; follow Cybers suggestions posted earlier etc etc

And it will add a huge dimension to the game. War will become more likely. Tech trading will be done more cautiously etc etc.

[LzPrst]

This is the penultimate vote count! All those who have not voted on these issues (or have been misunderstood) post
their desires please. There is currently a tie in the Anonymous play department, We seem to be tipping towards a premade map, most likely an Ozzyfied earth map and the point system seems to generate so little interest it passes by default.

Anonymous Play
3 Yes: Deity, Lzprst, Aussie_Lurker, (Cyber)
3 No: Capo, Heraclitus, Asmodeus,
1 Whatevah: Toni,

Map Type
5 Premade Map: Deity, Toni, Heraclitus, Mr.Lincoln, Toni
2 Random Map: Capo, Lzprst,
3 Either: Aussie_Lurker, Pinchak, Asmodeus

Point System
2 Yes: Toni, Lzprst, (Ozzy)
0 No:
3 Dont Care: Capo, Heraclitus, Asmodeus,


Please post your votes if I haven't counted you!

[Robert]

[mod hat on]
Capo: chill dude, stop the name calling.
[/mod hat]

[deity]

Confirming deity:

Anonymous Play = Yes

Map Type = Premade ozzy Large Earth map with uneven resources

Point System = ozzy points system for the official winner (would love the game score to be hidden but requires a mod I think?)

With ozzy's point system I think there should be a fixed time to vote - Say 2 weeks after the last session voting closes and if you haven't voted bad luck.

I've yet to see the votes for HOTW7. Ozzy can they be published as they are pls?

[deity]

Now, let's have a roll call for this weekend to do a connection test on a random map.

USA EST midnight on Saturday night
Europe Sunday 6am
Australia EDT 4pm

lz might double check this pls!

[deity]

Something for the newcomers to consider with their civ choices:

IF we use an Earth map the diplo tradition is for the civs to be placed historically.

So if you pick a nice European civ you will be crowded by other civs.

If you pick China you'll be in China etc.

Ozzy will ensure that the advantage of lots of space is offset by the terrain resources and vice versa for over crowded civs who will get excellent resources/land.

[LzPrst]

seems right providing the meeting planner is correct...

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=17&month=1&year=2008&p1=179&p2=16&p3=240&p4=-1

I can try to be awake then. it's gonna be hard, but I'll have coffee ready fast. I just hope I don't fall asleep at the keyboard...

[deity]

And we should collect each others phone numbers - can be crucial

[LzPrst]

in case I fall asleep you mean?