History of the World XI [Diplomacy Game] [Organization III]

[condor223]

Originally posted by CyberShy

Please take my advise, don't let others manipulate you!

Manipulating = when someone gives you small gifts (can be in words or in deeds) and requires your 'friendship' for that in return. A manipulator uses others as a shield, he (or she) mostly works behind the scenes, and lets others do the dirty work.
A manipulator makes you feel like you owe something to him, and that you can't do anything else, but back him up.
He makes you feel like he is your friend, but in reality, he tries to make everybody feel like he is their friend, and sets them up against each other.

That's why I'm angry and quiting this game.
Me and Nolan were setted up against each other. I'm sorry for that, Nolan.

Sorry you feel that way Rho, Ive tried to explain that part of the difficulty in diplo games is to keep everyone happy and hanging around... if someone's scores drop to dead .. way dead last, they feel hopeless and are not inspired to keep showing up.

The other thing is that always going for the top player is nice but not something to do all the time. I can assure you I would have allied with anyone who was near me and was willing to make trades. I guess that is manipulating too. We all do it.

It was my request to toni for an alliance. Im one of those players who has less ability to tech and develop than the others, so it is necessary for me to trade to not be the last. We all know our limits, I need to find a way to do keep up the interest in the game. It would be NO fun to be last.. very very dead last for half a year. So perhaps thinking much like other less adept players.

Part of my response to the triad was a feeling of hopelessness for my distant allies. It takes over 14 turns to get any units to them should they decide to fight. You know that I never backstab. I hate it in real life and in games it makes me sore. I also felt the foundation of the conflict was aimed mostly at toni.

It has been a long time since toni was allied with ozzy or you or any other great players. After a few games I have begun to wonder why this happens. Actually I did not NEED someone else to tell me what to think.

I'm a big girl and of another era. My gender and age seems to drive my approach in life. I also run a contest site for other games and am constantly worried about keeping things fun for everyone who has put in time. Sorry for having that instinct.. but I have been doing this for 8 years. It is that analysis that has kept the site running smoothly.

As for the rest.. let me think of the best way to explain. I have my DIPLO approach, I need to make a deal, either gold, tech, troops.. etc. In time the other person will do something to reciprocate. Isnt that part of any diplomatic relationship in the real world.. ?? Governments make deals.. every day..


our alliance changed because of the absenteeism of some players. THis really caused a lot of frustration on our part, cause we could not depend on someone showing up. Sorry we could not make them come... There is nothing much else to say. we cant make strategy plans with so many absences. Our frustration was facing a combined force while we had to deal with folks who had relaxed attendancd. I dont think you have taken that into account for what seems like a huge alliance vs the triad. It is not intended to cause frustration, but I expect to be able to say how I feel. It is me the feeler, less of a beancounter.. so blame me.

Am sorry for my diplo style. If it bothers everyone, then I can play sp. I do enjoy the company and the wild contacts mid week.. it gets funny at times.. frantic at times when someone who has agreed to do something or provide something suddenly goes to a wedding, etc.. and your gift.. I will give you this now, andyou give me x when you get it. lol then they show up when you might have teched or made the units yourself.

[arvcran]

Folks ... it's a game ... what our 'roleplaying' does has nothing to do with our honorability in real life :-). Play for the enjoyment, accept that this may not go your way - so what - it's just a game ;-).

[deity]

I think we just disband the jihad, all become buddies, stop writing stories and all go along our merry way to SS like the boring Inca.

You guys with the inability to separate OOC from IC have killed this game and you have to take a long hard look at yourselves if diplo-gaming is to survive.

[deity]

OOC

What's the point of us not attacking Russia if all we get is a religious conversion? Big deal. And Russia keeps saying "I can't join the jihad against Ethiopia and the Dutch because they've been my friends all along".

Well for goodness sakes, is this OOC or what?

If we are to play the game in roles and with stories and a bit like history then we should find old enemies becoming friends; new friends becoming enemies and so on over thousands of years - like the Portugal/Germany scenario.

But lining up favours on an OOC basis from 4000BC with as much of the world as will be your 'friend' is pathetic.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Wow, I have really missed a major bunfight here. Chill, people, CHILL. If you guys want to engage in a Jihad against a nation which has never threatened you-then that's your choice. For my part I will fight you as long as I can-after all, I have made the link between Ethiopia & her Faith in EVERY single story thus far. The idea that I will just roll over & adopt Islam is totally ludicrous. I might submit at some point, but it will be a while & will have STRONG storyline support (in fact, I have prepared stories covering both contingencies ). What I find equally ridiculous, however, is how England has suddenly abandoned a millenia of Belief in the Resubmerged. He should have at least put up a fight for his Faith. Anyway, lets stop all this out of game fighting, & save it all for the game-& I say: BRING IT ON!!!!

Oh, btw, I have a Christmas do tomorrow afternoon, so can really only give you 3 hours tomorrow-hope this isn't too much of a problem (this 2-hour delay to starting is a major problem).

[Robert]

Aussie, you are defenitely not the problem.
I really appreciate the way that you stell your story, and your stuborness(?) to not adopt Islam!
You back your actions up, and don't complain about stuff that happens in-game.
I also think that your alliance makes sence.

[Asmodeous]

Well.

Apparently in my absence last week from spending time going from Turkey dinner to Turkey dinner (I never want to see turkey ever again in my life) I missed a massive issue.

It would be NO fun to be last.. very very dead last for half a year. So perhaps thinking much like other less adept players.

Sure it! I've been dead last for the whole time I've been in this game. Yesyes, England slid behind me after a pair of sessions where it was controlled by the AI, but it was AI, so I was still last.

It's really not that bad, so long as you're enjoying the interaction. Diplogames aren't like straight MP-games where if you're in last you sit around doing nothing but waiting for annhiliation.

And Rhod, I don't wanna hear "One of the weakest," buddy, you're not even close.

Me.

[condor223]

Aussie, England has a new leader. He's not quite that aware of the diplo game style, and early in last session he got an ultimatum to change.. remember the civ was run by AI lotsof the time and is not developed by a human's style. Maybe he needs time to get his footing.

I'd planned to change to Islam in order to continue my story for the blessed Hagia Sofia, but the frustration of friends getting ganged up put me in a situation where it felt raw and upsetting.

I've tried to analyze why these games are tricky to play. The first thing is the number and reliability of the starting players. Next time you should limit the game to 8 or 9 players, then require the later arrivals to sub.. to be open to sub. It has been frustrating to try to diplo with absences, to offer gold to help someone research a key tech and then have them go missing.. and me having lost the gold. They could not DO the research without my cash, but also the Ai will change the tech research. Frustrating ... Anyway. All of my musings have been about making everyone have fun and getting the action running smoothly, but ive not made much sense to others.

I've had a total all-day dose of civving for years.. way back since Conquests, so maybe I'm starting to babble and need a few months to reconnect to my real life. I'm hanging in there to the end of this game because we don't need another empty civ and I owe it to those who might come to rely on Byzantine promises, but afterwards need the rest. The old body is not healing quickly any more and the housework, the painting and yard work is not getting done. You can immagine what a 5 year backup looks like.

I've gotten too wound up with online stuff and kinda tired out when MY plans keep requiring lots of changes. Toni's said at least 14 times.. "Don't quit nols... you are funny and a nice friend and we laugh a lot.".. and indeed we do. I'm just wearing out and need a break.. I hope that friendships continue in yim and we can play vs the monarch ai now and then and to ejoy each others company. Meh.. perhaps i dont belong in diplo cause I play for company not to win, (mostly cause its not logical that someone with my level of skill CAN win vs you aces) I play to be part of something.

Notice in History that some countries keep good relations for centuries. Indeed there are situations where they don't get along, but the gold and technology still keep flowing. Notice that USA is still giving gold and techs to Pakistan and other nations who dont have full democracy.

The jihad messed up with my story for the Hagia and i lost heart for it. I realy can't get on with the story for a while cause I can't think of anything but ranting in forum in rage, which is not in my best interest. I've done my share of whining in the background. Perhaps there is only one good style of diploing and its not mine. Dunno, am definetly needing a break after this one. Age and gender are tripping me up.. maybe tripping YOU up. See you tonight.

[Toni]

Well CS i hope you show up for tonight - i agree sometimes it gets ugly in here, but we should not take it seriously as Arv said its only a game.

[Robert]

No, I'm not showing up tonight.
I've had enough of it. It's only a game indeed, though since some of us apparantly don't act like it's a game and take things from the game to real life, and because some people play in unfair ways, sometimes within the rules, but in a very unfun way, sometimes even ignoring the rules, I lost interest.

I'll once again list my reasons:
- experienced better player who manipulates new players
- no story posting
- rejection of my very valid story
- me being accused of cheating
- me being accused of powerplay (Islam Jihad)
- lies about big alliances that showed up to apparantly be big alliances
- top player who uses new players as a shield
- taking advantage of Ai spots

I've had enough of it.
I'll certainly start a new diplogame within a few weeks. And I'll be very selective to whom I will accept. Aussie_Lurker and Asmodeam proved to be very enjoyable players. They post story posts, are reliable.

I'm just sick of wasting time every friday from 00:30 am - 03:30 am this way.

I think I've done my very best to keep this game running.
I don't care that I'm not in the top position. I've never been the top civ in one of the 4 diplogames before this one.

But I see no future in this game.
Only a very few players are posting stories are role playing. This is not a diplogame.

I hope you guys have fun tonight. I've posted the saves, I advise you guys to take the autosave.
Find someone who'll sub at least one turn for me, or you won't be able to start.

It'll be pretty hard for you guys to start anyway, since we didn't end in a reasonable way last session.

I've enjoyed my Jihad Storyline. I wish I could've continued it.

CS

[Toni]

since some of us apparantly don't act like it's a game and take things from the game to real life

LOL hey CS you are the one taking it so seriously and quiting! So grow UP. I instead came to say hey lets go on and have fun - but sadly you just don't wona make a compromise - you just continue on barking and barking what a poor victim you are.

Yes we are humans and make mistakes - we shake hands and then continue on

[Robert]

Toni, you don't understand my problem. That last post here shows that once again.
Just for the record, I'm not a victim, never claimed to be one. About the compromise? Seriously, what? This has nothing to do with compromises.

Regarding the barking, oh well.....
Concerning the 'we make mistakes', never had a problem with mistakes. This is not about mistakes, this is about a game attitude.
And lastly about the growing up, well, that's what I do by leaving this game.

[Toni]

CS well first of all i think it is very hard to solve such issues via typing - i would be happy to talk with you on the phone or via Skype. Now what we are doing we are shooting forwards and backwards with no end.

Please contact me via the following:

Skype - Anton Karayanev
Tel - us 001 415 5432541

I think this will solve many bad feelings etc

[Toni]

CS i have added you to my skype - just need you to get online and talk

[deity]

he he

Watch out CS! Toni wants to be your friend

j/j