The HOTW VII - Setup Thread II (or the entrance of new mods)

[KunojiLym]

I can go either way

[MMC]

Perhaps we should limit it at Writing... since you can always draw the map on a wall, even if you have no paper to make it carryable.

[Colonel_Treize]

First of all, I never said people couldn't post at all until Paper. The main issue regards revealing info to all players before all Civs have met in-game. Keep that in mind when you vote.

Kindly allow me to make my case. I feel that waiting until Paper to exchange screenshots would make the diplomacy in the game more interesting and realistic.

It makes diplomacy more interesting that certain options like land agreements are limited to what your scouts have seen or what you can describe in chat. Having limitations adds to the flavor of storytelling. Dealing with the limitations of your character is the essence of storytelling in novels. It requires you to be more creative.

It is obvious as to why it is more realistic. I would also like to add that the way things are done now, map trading in the game via the option revealed by Paper is meaningless. You cannot trade maps for anything, unless it is a spoken agreement to trade a map. I know most of you are thinking that a map is worthless compared to gold or techs, but consider this issue from a role-playing perspective. Frank has a good point about libraries being made before Paper is discovered, but this is the way the game was meant to be played. For that, I refer you to the previous paragraph.

All other arguments aside, I suggest that we should at least segregate the threads into two for people like myself who do not want to know what their character shouldn't know, for roleplaying reasons. I think the original thread should be available for the diplogame veterans who have always revealed whatever they wanted to and always will. The new thread should be reserved for creative storytellers who would like to leave pertinent information about other Civs out of public view until it makes sense for all Civs to know that information (when all Civs have met in-game). Players will be required to post in only one of the two threads. I invite players who have already posted the second way to post in the second thread next week. This third solution is what I vote for aswell because it is win-win for all.

There should be a second vote called on whether or not to allow some players like myself to post in a second thread without spoilers. There is no reason not to do this. Just because the first vote doesn't pass shouldn't mean that people have to look at info that they don't want to know.

Colonel_Treize: Y

[OzzyKP]

I don't like the idea of having two threads. I think it would limit our interaction and story telling by splitting us up into two camps really.

You say that dealing with the limitations of your character is the essence of storytelling in novels. I agree. You deal with it, you don't make yourself the author as ignorant as your characters.

A good author can write a character with limitations without having those limitations himself. I think that is something we should all aspire to do with this game. Not take on the burden of our characters.

[Colonel_Treize]

True, but this is a unique situation where the authors and the characters are one and the same.

Players can read either thread. There is no limitation on that. I edited my last post. By leaving only one thread and requiring me to post in it, you are inherenty requiring me to accidently, from time to time, learn information my character shouldn't know. It simply isn't fair to me or my constituents. Boy, this music is making me feel very patriotic.

[OzzyKP]

But you aren't the character. You are a player and an author. You are supposed to possess more information than your characters do. You have a tech tree. You know what units to build. You can see forward through time. You AREN'T a character. You are a god-like being in this game world that should possess god-like knowledge. It is entirely fitting and appropriate.


On a seperate note, anyone remember who subbed for whom?

[Colonel_Treize]

You are right. An author is all-knowing, and I can separate what my character knows from what I know. Nevertheless, I am also a reader and a spectator as well. And as a reader, I would request the right to not have to scroll through information I shouldn't know as a reader. Players can post in either thread and read either thread, with the disclaimer that the original thread may contain spoilers. The second thread would be for storytelling that doesn't give pertinent information away. Deals can be made in private as well. This option only allows for a win-win situation.

[deity]

I'm willing to give it a go CT but looks like you are out voted.

[Colonel_Treize]

Actually, there are two votes.

The first one is whether or not to allow screenshots and other info that your chacter shouldn't know in the original thread at all.

The second vote is whether or not to allow players who want to try things this way in another thread to do so.

Ozzy and I are the only ones who voted on the second vote. So, the second vote is a tie, unless we are to count your vote as Yea. Also, many of those who have voiced their opinions have not yet read my rebuttals, so I am hopeful.

I vote NO on Propostion 1 and YES on Propostion 2.

[deity]

I vote YES
then NO

I don't want two threads

[deity]

ozzy, this in other thread:

FIRST SESSION 2935 BC

India(Gandhi) - CyberShy
Egypt(Ramses) - Nolan
Vikings(Ragnar Lodbrok) - LzPrst
China(Qin Shi Huang) - KunojiLym
Korea(Tan-gun ) - Deity
Inca(Huayna Capac) - Dangime
France(Napoleon Boneparte) - Colonel_Treize
England(Victoria) - MMC
Celts(Brennus) - Francois (I think!)
Arabs(Saladin) - OzzyKP
Carthage(Hannibal) - ?
Rome(Julius Ceasar) - Trev
Bulgaria(Cyrus II) - Toni

[Colonel_Treize]

Then, which idea were you willing to give a go, deity? Did you change your mind on the first vote?

Btw, thx guys for the list of ideas on stuff to do. I should share that with the impatient Ladderites who insist on playing with a blazing turn timer. :P:

[deity]

Yes, wait for Paper (or No whatever!!)

[Robert]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
You and Lz are online! We could have kept playing!

I got back online not long after I dropped. We could have gotten in several more turns.

Had to figure some stuff out, now it's 4 hours later and I'm awake again because I have to work

ONLY FOUR HOURS OF SLEEP! It's as if the baby has already been born!

[Robert]

And I think two threads is too much.
Don't be afraid to be spoiled, let's just make the game as rich as possible. We can add more 'realistic' rules, I haven't met the vikings so I shouldn't be able to read their history posts, etc.

But what counts is fun and storytelling, so I'd say that the more story we can tell and the more we can do it with screenshots, the better the stories will be.