The HOTW VII - Setup Thread II (or the entrance of new mods)

[LzPrst]

all capo has to do is A. post his comp specs here, and B. buy a new graphics card. you have a week capo

[LzPrst]

I was playing as japan and being too aggressive for my own good. conquered most of china, but was lagging behind in tech. had lots of land though and was catching up, fast. then france, from another continent dow's on me and invades and RAZES my capital. why would anyone invade another country just to burn cities!?!?!!? conquest I understand. imperialism, colonialism, I get it. genocide without any reason or benefit? WTF!!

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by CyberShy
I must say that I'm very suprised that the Arabas haven't found monotheism but are talking about 'God' all the time nevertheless!

Our people have always had a relationship with the one true God. We may not have all the rules and commandments of a formal religion, but we know what's up.

[Frank Johnson]

Thanks. If I borrow a ton of story elements even I can write something interesting I guess.

Indeed, Bob has combat 3.

[Robert]

/me hopes that none of the monotheistic religions will ever reach Arabia and that it'll embrace Hinduism quickly

[Colonel_Treize]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
We may not have all the rules and commandments of a formal religion, but we know what's up.

Omg, that reply was priceless, Ozzy. It sounds religious, yet hip.

Btw, have we any new thoughts on the votes I called? It seems LzPrst, deity and MMC are leaning towards my POV, while others seem dead against it or simply uninterested. What it boils down to and the reason why 2 votes are being called on the same issue, is that I hope one of the two plans will be acceptable, even though they are inherently mutually exclusive.

I just want the right to not have to learn stuff accidently I don't want to know yet. My solutions are inconvenient, but I think it either one is a reasonable accomodation for players who agree with me. They aren't meant to be convenient for those who disagree, they are meant to satisfy the rights of other players like myself.

I briefly brought up this issue in the original setup thread. My concerns were answered in such a way as to leave me thinking you guys already solved that problem.

I have neglected to look at the story threads (and thereby post) until this matter comes to a conclusion, in my favor or not.

Like LzPrst said about an argument he had in the other setup thread, please look at this issue from all angles and make an informed descision. Don't decide on this based on convenience or past precedent. Thx.

[Frank Johnson]

Uh, isn't the solution to all of this spoiler tags? Lots of sites detiticated to stuff like TV shows will just let you cut text or images off to a link if they contain specific info someone doesn't want to hear because it may ruin it for them?

[Robert]

Colonel, what's exactly spoiled if you see a map of my capital? (there aren't any maps in the story thread, btw, so you can safely go there)

I understand your pov but I just think that you are wrong in that. Why don't you just try it the way it's being done foe 7 years to everybodies satisfaction and then we can debate it for any next diplogame before the game starts. You can see if it really spoiles the fun for you (which I REALLY can't imagine) and if it does so you can give us arguments for it in the next setup-threat.

[Colonel_Treize]

@Frank: Spoiler tags are a good idea and I'm willing to consider that as a possible solution. Essentially, that is what I had in mind by creating another thread, to leave the original one for spoilers that people have to share in order to make a good story. I believe that truly imaginitive writers don't have to reveal game-specific details. Hence, the second thread.

@cyber: Read my last post again. I did mention this in the first setup thread before the game began. I was under the mistaken impression that players already did things this way in the past.

Maps that show the double cross of someone's capital are inconsequential, agreed. Read LzPrst's post in which he says he agrees with me a little bit. He explains exactly what I mean by spoilers. But if showing a few squares of land is meaningless unless you understand the context, then why post a screen shot of a few squares for everyone to see in the first place?

Let me give you a mundane example in a non-existent game. Let's say Zululand and America met and formed an alliance. Each player posts their acknowledgement of the alliance publicly. Now, every player knows about this alliance, even if they never met Zululand or America in the game. When the Ottomans meet Shaka, they already know about the Zulu alliance with America, even though Shaka didn't want the Ottomans to know in order to decieve them. Because both America and Zululand posted the Alliance, Mehmed II knows they are not lying in the post, and he knows that any attempt at misinformation spread by Zululand is a lie, even though he logically shouldn't. Therefore, knowing stuff your character shouldn't know inhibits your ability to be decieved, whether you want it to or not. Being able to lie and be lied to is a big element of diplogames, am I right?

[Robert]

Do you think anybody is going to post details about things he want to lie about later? I've lied a lot in HOTW5. The key is, don't post things about which you don't want to be honest. Of course you can't lie in 'chronicals' but you can lie in letters you write. And of course you can let your leaders speak incorrect stories.

What the point is of posting a few meaningless squares? Because of the story telling. I'm telling the story of my people in my posts in the Storythreat. It's not only diplomacy, it's also storytelling and role playing.

We'll have a boring game if it's limmited by the rules you propose. I see your arguments and understand your pov, I just think it's less fun. It may be more realistic but it'll make it a very boring game untill 1AD at least.

Regarding you posting this already before the game started, remember that that was at a moment that we had already agreed on all rules of the game. We've had many discussions about many rules and we were all happy that it all had been settled. I think nobody was interested in talking about all rule changes and everybody was satisfied with the rules as they were.

I think majority of the players don't want to discuss it either right now b/c they just want to play the game as it is. Of course there are always a few players who're interested in any new idea or suggestion, which is cool since diplogaming would stand still forever if they weren't there. Therefor I think we should take your idea to the setup of a new game and discuss it there.

I think it's not a good idea to change rules during the game unless something is really wrong. If we change rules now some players will think: "Hey, I'm against that rule, I don't want to compromise on it nor do I want to comply to it because a majority votes for it. When we started this game the rule wasn't there, otherwise I wouldn't have joined it".

If we have a rule change during the game I think every player must be able to veto it. New rules are for new games. I know it sounds hard but I think that's realistic.
If your rule is being votes in, (7-6, worst case) then someone else will come with a new idea, and a new idea, and we keep on talking about rules. That just doesn't make a good game.

Let's delay new rules to new games and please try to enjoy a diplogame as we play it right now! I'm sure you'll like it, and if you hate it I'm sure can gather tons of arguments against it which you can use in the next setup-threat!

[Thrak]

Whilst I don't mind subbing if needed, it would be nice to know if I am permanently going to be playing Carthage. Or at least in some sort of rotation schedule ¬_¬

[Robert]

Thrak, The Capo isn't sure yet if he can play. I think there's a good change that you have to take over for him (you subbed for The Capo, right?)

Perhaps it's a good idea to agree that if you have played the civ for 3 weeks while The Capo didn't show up at all that you can take the Romans for yourself. Ozzy has to agree with this as well though. I think we can't ask you to sub that long without getting in charge. I need to know the opinion of the others on this though.

[MMC]

He subbed for Prussia.

[Thrak]

Hope you liked my addition to the HOTW story thread thing, but yeah it was Prussia (Carthage) that I subbed for.

[LzPrst]

good story thrak. reminds me a little of the start of eric the unready. classic

though If you dont mind, I have something to discuss with you if you are to play carthage next session. I can discuss it with you regardless actually, as it isnt a matter of vital secrecy, but there is a certain urgency to it.

it would be nice to know if I should be adressing you or Prussia. Regardless, I'll PM you my thoughts and you can either convey them to Prussia if he's getting back or reply and react to them yourself. Prussia should have power back by now and he must bloody well post whether he's gonna play on friday or not. I need to know that he is available for diplo or not, and if not, who should I then talk to.

Thrak, have you taken screenshots of your land so Prussia can see his situation? if not then I have a few screens of Carthage and the aroundlaying area. My scouts see everything Prussia, if you want the screens just post here and I'll PM them to you. Along with my suggestion.