The HOTW VII - Setup Thread II (or the entrance of new mods)

[Frank Johnson]

Toni... :P First off, someone was gonna trade me alpha for metal casting. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. You can move the trade 1 way or another 10 turns, but eventually my 2 trades of that particular tech were gonna be big and they were, unfortuently my ESP was failing at the time so I could not detect deity's mistake. While I did benefit from the trade, the potential of my own tech to trade was unique to the point that even if it wasn't deity I could have done an identical trade with anyone who researched alpha. I just wanted to avoid creating reloads over techincalities when we normally have the problems we do, and said as much at the time.

[Toni]

Toni is the villain I know, he needs to research Alphabet and metal working still on his own No freebies for me

[OzzyKP]

I agree we should have some kind of serious penalty for those involved in this trade. (and were there more illegal trades by the subs? I see math, alphabet & iron working in a lot of different hands)

Whether accidental or not, this has just given Deity & Frank a very big advantage over the rest of us. Especially with a trade as big as alphabet. Deity didn't do the work to invent the tech, and yet he profited from it by trading it to others for more tech - and important tech too. This should not be dismissed lightly. I find this especially ironic considering Deity was the one who wanted to ban all tech trading - yet he was the one who couldn't respect the rule we did have.

And please, everyone vote on the victory condition.

[LzPrst]

hang on. what exactly happened? I got the impression that Deity traded Alphabet one more time than allowed (that the mistake was giving it away 3 times instead just 2) was this not the case? I am confused.

Deity. Please describe in detail what occurred so we can understand what happened and find a good way of dealing with it.

[OzzyKP]

As far as I know CT traded Alphabet to Deity, and then Deity traded it to Frank.

Which is obviously against the rules and isn't just a matter of miscounting how many times a tech has been traded.

[Toni]

Just as ozzy pointed out deity traded a tech which he did not discover by himself.

In exchange deity got from frank Metal working (cost 40-60 turns). But its clear Deity came out with the better deal.

[LzPrst]

that's a VERY VERY VERY BAD Deity!

how did you manage to slip up so badly!? it is clear. the punishment must be death.

ok. we can be civil and keep it at 50 lashes. but honestly. did you forget the rules? the weeks and weeks of tech trade discussions? did you forget that you didnt invent it yourself?

bad deity. I say we put a tech trading limitation on deity during next session. and ask frank to play badly for a few turns (like that's ever gonna happen)

now frank didnt really gain much as he could have gotten alphabet from someone else, so I dont know if any punishment should be going his way as he also acted in good faith. (he better have or else...)

lets put a tech trade limitation on deity for a few turns next session as he has gained greatly from breaking the rules, although involuntarily.

as frank acted in good faith it is not reasonable to punish him, and as he said the benefit he received he would have gotten from someone else anyway. (very likely at least)

perhaps the biggest injustice here is that franks metal casting went to Deity and NOT to for example C_T or someone else who DID research alphabet and should have benefited from doing the hard work themselves. so in a way there is a two-fold crime here. deity has unjustly benefited himself and at the same time deprived someone else of the possibility for such a benefit.

should anything be done about this? should frank GIVE away metal casting to some civ with alphabet that he would have traded with if deity hadnt messed up? it isnt such a technicality really. it is a considerable skewing of an important moment in the game in favor of one at the expense of someone else. this should be attempted to be corrected somehow.

[Toni]

Well said LZ. but what about the rest of us, don't u think we were left in the dark as well turn wise?

One solution may be to penalize deity for the amount of turns that he would otherwise need to discover metal working for himself.

[deity]

For goodness sakes. I made a mistake due to home distractions. I traded 3 techs for 2 of Franks. I immediately realised and said STOP!

I'd much prefer no tech trading.

What's with this about respect of the rule oxzzy? I really hate the way you go on when I said I made a mistake. It's not about respecting the rule... it's about the fact that I'm a stupid old bastard...

We'll NEVER hear the end of this and I seriously think we should go back to a save before the trade (if it exists). We should have immediately reloaded at the time.

[LzPrst]

I agree with deity actually. as I have tried to show in my posts, by not being 100% serious, this isnt the end of the world, I just want to try to balance things off again so we dont have to reload.

as it is things have happened since that cant be changed and shouldnt be replayed. this is why deity is right, we should have reloaded then and there. now however, IMO, this is too late. for how many turns did we play after the trade happened? it was a lot iirc. so instead we should try to make sure that things work out properly anyway. a slight penalty on deity will hopefully balance out the benefit gotten by irregular means.

the only problem here as I see it is the civs that may or may not have traded alphabet for metal casting losing out. but the only way of correcting this would be a reload. as it was, I believe a reload at the time was not desired as we all probably feared that it might lead to tech diffs that we had luckily avoided for that particular session.

Does anyone know how many turns played after the error?

[Toni]

The aim here is not to argue and point fingers, but just to undo what is done and make it fair to all again and of course make sure that this doesn’t happens again plz.

Does anyone know how many turns played after the error?

A lot LZ around 40 turns I would say

[OzzyKP]

Over 500, so see new thread.

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