Hitler as a leader

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Pinchak
I direct this question to Sir Ralph and Alexander in particular, since their comments to date have either been simply stating that Hitler will never be in the game, or critical of me personally.

I gave you my opinion - avoiding bad press leading to better sales. If you chose to dismiss it, it's your problem, not mine.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Pinchak

I direct this question to Sir Ralph and Alexander in particular, since their comments to date have either been simply stating that Hitler will never be in the game, or critical of me personally.

One final note... if you are going to cite all the moral wrong and destruction Hitler caused, please also justify the game inclusions noted two paragraphs above.

Now we will see who has achived "victory".

I don't remember being critical of you personally and am curious as to why you would call me out personally.
I have no desire to debate the merits of including Adolf Hitler in Civilization IV, and remain indifferent to any attempt at his inclusion in the game.

This conversation belongs in the OT, as it is no longer directly about the original thread topic (ie. "will he be included" vs. "why is he not included").

[Pinchak]

I guess you can't think beyond the marketing aspect Sir Ralph, even though i asked you to try. (so reminds me of the robots i worked with at Infineon Tech)

Interestingly enough... the game Grand Theft Auto has got a TON of bad press and is still one of the best selling game series. Maybe Firaxis should add Hitler and throw in the concentration camp as the UB for Civ5 if sales takes precidence over intergraty.

In responce to you Unorthodox, what do you think about all the people in China who bought this game, then see Mao as a leader. Perhaps their parents were murdered or imprisoned by him? I serously doubt any of the students in your story actually had parents killed by Hitler.

I forgot though... they don't count.

[khines]

Since there is/are already leaderhead mod(s), who cares whether Firaxis included it or not?

My personal opinion, if I had been asked by Firaxis when they were writing the game, would have been put the option to play Hitler in the game. Those who are repulsed by Hitler don't have to play as Hitler. The game allows the player to select opponents, so they would never have to play against him, either.

Of course, I only give my opinion because the topic was brought up. Other than that, I really don't care one way or the other. Put him in or don't...it's just a game.

[Pinchak]

Your opinion is valued Alexander because you are German. Perhaps you can offer a good reason for his ban from Civ, because personally I haven't seen one yet.

Sorry for lumping you in with Sir Ralph regarding personal attacks.

If you really have no opinion on this topic though, I do have to wonder why you keep posting to it and following it.

[Pinchak]

Put him in or don't...it's just a game.

True, but the bigger issue here is censorship.

Truth be told, I really don't miss Hitler in the game.

The fact that censorship in one country is affecting free thinking peoples experiences is another country is wrong, wrong, wrong, IMO. Expeically when the game was developed in a country that allows Neo-Nazi rallys in the name of FREE SPEECH.

First we ban Hitler in a game, then we ban Santa Claws because it offends people, then we ban certain books, then we ban certain ideas....

Then we say hello to the next Hitler in real life.

SEE MY POINT YET?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Pinchak
I guess you can't think beyond the marketing aspect, even though i asked you to try.

Why would I, if I consider that the most likely reason? Most decisions companies meet come down to exactly that.

If you want to continue to spin conspiracy theories you're free to do so. I can even recommend you an appropriate headpiece. Just don't expect me to waste any more of my precious time. As many stated, this discussion is pretty stale, it keeps coming back every few months and never -ever- has gotten to a definite result (which would be an official statement by the developers). I don't see why it would now.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Pinchak
Sorry for lumping you in with Sir Ralph regarding personal attacks.

Where exactly did I attack you personally?

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Pinchak
Your opinion is valued Alexander because you are German. Perhaps you can offer a good reason for his ban from Civ, because personally I haven't seen one yet.

Sorry for lumping you in with Sir Ralph regarding personal attacks.

If you really have no opinion on this topic though, I do have to wonder why you keep posting to it and following it.

I originally came to this thread to offer my input -- the knowledge of CFC's Hitlerheads. I returned only to warn of this thread's impending demise and to answer your personal inquiry.

As a German citizen, I am saddened by Hitler's role in my country's history, but as to whether or nor he should be banned generally, as in Germany, I am indifferent. I understand the reasons Firaxis gives for not including Mr. H, and should I ever have a desire to have "the Fuehrer" in the game, I would download his likeness from CFC.

I feel that there is really no need to continue this discussion any further, I believe it is pointless. If you want a debate, you can always take it to the OT's History Forum. It does not belong here.

[Pinchak]

Hell, I'm just arguing for the sake of argueing.

I hardly think this thread is going to make an ounce of difference as to if Hitler ever makes it into the game.

And perhaps I have altered the topic a bit. A shift from "why isn't he in the game" to "should he be in the game".

A much more debatable and interesting topic IMO.

[Pinchak]

In my books there's a simple word for that. You're trolling.

That combined with the insinuation that I am "ruining my rep", and that you "take pity" on me by speaking my mind, is, IMO, a personal attack.

but as to whether or nor he should be banned generally, as in Germany, I am indifferent.

You are indifferent to what your country allows you to think and express, yet you repeatedly show interest in having this thread moved?

Weird.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Pinchak
That combined with the insinuation that I am "ruining my rep", and that you "take pity" on me by speaking my mind, is, IMO, a personal attack.

You said yourself "I simply throw out some contraversy [sic!], and see who bites". That's exactly the definition of trolling. Basically you said yourself you're trolling, I just brought it to the point.

As to "ruining your reputation", that's an observation, not a statement. You admitted yourself you were "catching flak". If you think that's not ruining your reputation, there's really reason to pity you.

You compared me with a robot. I am deeply offended by this.

[Pinchak]

Oh come on now Ralph, I was just joking about the robot thing.

I throw out contraversy too see just how narrow minded some people are. Never fails that some self rightous dolt responds all high and mighty like with a bunch of regurgitated info/ideals they were taught by people who can't think for themselfs.


Ahhh, well, I'm done with this topic.


Keep on the lookout for my next thread, "Was Hilter simply defending himself and all Christians? An indepth look at the Torah".

WARNING... May make certain peoples heads explode.

[Harovan]

I admit I was trolling with the robot statement.

As to your thread, you should definitely place it in the history forum. I guarantee you it wouldn't even be the silliest thread there by a long shot. Just do yourself a favor and spell Hitler right this time, or the sharks there will eat you alive (which I predict they'll do anyway).

[LordShiva]

I extend a warm invitation for Pinchak to visit the Off-Topic Forum