CivIV: Beyond the Sword

[Martinus]

About new civs. Except for the Mali, all civilizations in Civ4 (including Warlords) so far were already present in Civ3, so I think it is reasonable to assume they will follow the same suit in BtS. In practice it means the following:

1. Babylonians (already confirmed)
2. Portuguese (already confirmed(
3. Dutch (already confirmed)
4. Byzantines
5. Hittites
6. Mayans
7. Sumerians
8. Iroquis (there is a Sioux leader on a screenshot - it has been speculated that instead of Iroquis and Sioux, there will be one "Native American" civ, with two leaders, one representing the Iroquis and the other the Sioux).

This leaves 2 extra civs. I hope they are something from SE Asia or Oceania.

[dregor]

Originally posted by Martinus
About new civs. Except for the Mali, all civilizations in Civ4 (including Warlords) so far were already present in Civ3, so I think it is reasonable to assume they will follow the same suit in BtS. In practice it means the following:

1. Babylonians (already confirmed)
2. Portuguese (already confirmed(
3. Dutch (already confirmed)
4. Byzantines
5. Hittites
6. Mayans
7. Sumerians
8. Iroquis (there is a Sioux leader on a screenshot - it has been speculated that instead of Iroquis and Sioux, there will be one "Native American" civ, with two leaders, one representing the Iroquis and the other the Sioux).

This leaves 2 extra civs. I hope they are something from SE Asia or Oceania.

This man speaks reason. I'd be surprised if any of this list wasn't in, including the genericized "Native American" civ. As for the 2 remaining, that's a crap shoot really. I can see either Poland or Austria having a crack at one of the spots, but not both. Maybe something like Kongo, Angola, Mauritania, or Ethiopia. An oceanic civ would be great, but I honestly know very little about the region. The key is to be able to link them up with reasonably reknowned leaders.

I wonder if Imelda Marcos would qualify

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by dregor

An oceanic civ would be great, but I honestly know very little about the region. The key is to be able to link them up with reasonably reknowned leaders.

I wonder if Imelda Marcos would qualify

Hmm. It would have to be a composite civ, like the "Polynesians." Hawaii's King Kamehameha I, the Great, might be a good leader. That being said, I've never thought their inclusion was likely. Too CTP-ish.

[Cartimandua]

Originally posted by Alexander I


Hmm. It would have to be a composite civ, like the "Polynesians." Hawaii's King Kamehameha I, the Great, might be a good leader. That being said, I've never thought their inclusion was likely. Too CTP-ish.

I would be seriously surprised if the Polynesians made it into Civ, simply because they have been rather low profile compared to some of the other Civs we have been throwing around as of late. I think that Martinus has some good ideas though, I would join in with his guesses.

[Wycoff]

Poland would be a cool addition.

[Robert]

Originally posted by Brutus66
When I first read the news about the expansion I was excited, but after I took the time to study the details, now I feel lukewarm about it. I'll still buy it- it's Civ, afterall...
I guess maybe I'm just burned out lately- I have gotten to the point where I win pretty consistently on Noble, even with Blake's AI, but somewhere along the way I lost that loving feeling.
I had hoped for some ground-breaking stuff in BtS, but honestly, some of the expansion's features I find less than exciting:
# Expanded Epic Game: I play on marathon mostly, but I am curious to see what they have done to spice up the late game.
# New Game Scenarios: I haven't played the ones I have, except the Barbarians.
# New Civilizations: There are plenty of well-made mods that give you new civs, and they are available for download free.
# More Civilization Leaders: See above. And modmakers have the courage to include unpopular historical figures like Hitler.
# New Wonders: Also see above
# Corporations: Sounds terrific.
# Espionage: - it's about time
# Events: also about time, fans have been suggesting this for years
# Apostolic Palace: meh.
# Advanced Starts: meh.
# Enhanced AI: Any better than Blakes?

So, in fact you're not that happy with the XP because a lot of things already have been modded in?
That means that Firaxis the next time 'd better not make their games that moddable because in the end it won't satisfy anybody!

[Jaybe]

I don't put alot of stock in pre-release hype because HOW they are implemented is what's important.

I will probably purchase BtW the day it is locally available, having reserved one at the local EB Games.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by CyberShy


So, in fact you're not that happy with the XP because a lot of things already have been modded in?
That means that Firaxis the next time 'd better not make their games that moddable because in the end it won't satisfy anybody!

Like many people, I play MP more than SP - for me, mods are of very little value, since it is always a pain making sure all participants have the same mods installed.

Plus, mods are often unstable or imbalanced, which again makes MP hard to play.

[Robert]

Works for me as well!
To play good MP games (diplogames!) we need a good modless game that all players have!

Not to mention that a official XP is better ballanced then most mods.

[DrSpike]

Re: CivIV: Beyond the Sword

Originally posted by Thedrin
Expansions news.

Edit: 2k Games Beyond the Sword. Contains press release and art work.

Beyond the Sword refering to a focus on the post-gunpowder era.

12 scenarios
10 new civs (including Netherlands, Portugal, Bab-something)
16 new leaders
New units
Corporations
Expanded espionage
Random events
5 new wonders
An earlier version of the United Nations
Expanded diplomatic options
Enhanced AI

Sorry, saw this late. Nothing very surprising though.

[Brutus66]

Originally posted by CyberShy
So, in fact you're not that happy with the XP because a lot of things already have been modded in?
That means that Firaxis the next time 'd better not make their games that moddable because in the end it won't satisfy anybody!

What I am saying is how about new features and ideas rather than just more civs and leaders? How many civs do you need in the game before you say that's enough?

I didn't say I wasn't happy- just not excited.
And that comment about not making the game moddable, come on now.

[Robert]

That last comment was a response to the fact that the more moddable the game will be, the harder it will be for a publisher to come with XP's that do something that mod-makers didn't do / couldn't do.

I think that for BtS there are 4 new features that go far beyond what modders can do:
- expanded space race
- corporations
- espionage system
- Apostolic palace

Those are the important parts of the new XP.
The rest are extra's. I'm actually pretty suprised with that many new game elements.
The rest is bonus for me. I think you should focus on those 4 features!

[Impaler[WrG]]

Actually moders CAN and in some instances have done those things, they just don't do them as well. I for example made 4 new Spy missions including steal research some time ago but didn't have any real AI support. I also did the Charismatic trait before Warlords was even announced (its kinda a no brainier that their should be a happiness boosting trait). What Firaxis can do is make all this bug-free, balanced and usable in multi-player which is a huge challenge for the mod makers. Only the largest projects do any real balancing or ever manage to work all the bugs out of their code.

Fans generate content (Civs, Units, Buildings, Maps) and all that stuff very very fast and in huge quantities. The quality is on average low but the volume is so high that the best stuff is of comparable quality to what Firaxis makes. Fortunately the rate of production and quality continue to rise. But when it comes to new high level concepts those are rare and never as stable/balanced as something of professional quality.

[Locutus]

With most of the source code available there's almost nothing you could think that modders couldn't do that Firaxis can, and that they couldn't do as well, if not better. The fact that Firaxis draws very heavily on the fan community with the testing group is a testament to this: Civ4 wouldn't be nearly as good as it is now if it wasn't for modders and players in the community contributing a lot of their time and effort to the official product. Every single aspect of the game has been crafted with the help of the fans, not a single gameplay feature is a Firaxis-only production. Whether its my city/building/unit/GP names, Sirian's map scripts, Rhye's flags, Dale's scenarios, Blake's AI, Sullla's Civilopedia texts, ColdFever's localisation, countless other people's ideas, playtesting, debugging, code, etc, etc, etc. Don't forget that two of the main designers for Warlords are Apolytoners...

The only practical difference between a mod and an XP is that an XP is easier to find (especially for mainstream gamers, i.e. the millions that don't post here) and makes it easier to agree on a standard for MP games, tournaments, etc. The fact that it's official serves both as a rallying point for all the best modders and players to come together (with Firaxis providing direction and the budget to get things done both well and fast) and functions as some sort of quality control: with mods you never know what you're gonna get. Some of it is brilliant, a lot of it is crap but most is somewhere in between, and you never really know what you have until you try it -- and most people just don't have the patience to test hundreds of mods to find the dozen or so that they like (and then hope that they are compatible, which they usually aren't). You can count on an official XP being more or less solid and (once patched up) fairly balanced and bug-free. There can be no doubt that the best fan-made mods are better than the official game in every way, but the problem is to figure out what they are and how to get them to play together.

So an XP to Civ4 is basically nothing more than a fairly high-quality mod that forms a widely accepted standard.

[AccipiterQ]

Originally posted by Thedrin


+100% production yield from all chopped forests.

bAAAAAAAAAAAAAhahah