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First a notice that I’m a fan of Yin26, so my opinions might not be totally objective. 
Second this post will take some points from mostly the beginning of this thread (as I hadn’t noticed this one before) and is quite lengthy as I’m now trying to reply to some statements made here.
About Yin and his value
Well shame on you 
What he did on the list for Civ3 is still a merit (He was the first, there will always be people afterwards ready to do it better. Just as when Columbus had found “India”) – now let me see you work N-hundreds of hours for free on something, see it turn not good and still remain a – jolly-good-beliver.
So Yin has his rights to disbelieve – he earned that the hard way on Civ3 and SMAC before that.
About Civ2.7
Well same here – after started playing Civ2 didn’t play Civ1 anymoore – after Civ3 have palyed both Civ 2 and Civ1. So it wasn’t worth the title of Civ3 IMHO.
Right – most likely even I will not find Civ4 to meet my expectations. Does it mean I dislike FIRAXIS? Maybe I just have an own image of what Civ should be and if it’s not that – well then it has to be mighty good not to receive bad verdict from me...
Yin: to like or not to like – that’s the question
Yin does this seam at all familiar to you – remember when I disliked you a lot?
No why cann’t I find my post about Yin doing’s before Apolyton (On the SMAC forums)
(long story short – just as Stuie also mentioned)
Yes in the beginning Yin just complained about SMAC and was a pain – then he started a “first” collection of “5 most important bugs and 5 most important gameplay improvements in the next patch”. That process changed him from just complaining to seriously asking, with good explanations and motivations, for better products.
At that time I started to see that actually Yin has good points, very good points – and after that I’ve been a fan of him. He doesn’t believe everything told (like I do) – he wants good products and isn’t afraid to say it (with explanations)
WOW – Actually this one message says it all. THX Solver
Why not just relay on own judgement?
Well that’s fine.
Unfortunately some of us have to earn our living and can’t spend all our time playing. So we need to get some info on games to pick up – for me one game I picked up after good recommendations by others was Europa Universalis. Some other games I have left untried after bad opinions. – For Civ4 I’m waiting for player opinions.
So yes, just as here have been discussions – some posters have earned the right to be taken seriously and Yin26 is one of those.
About how to decide if to eat or not to eat the box
Don’t let us vote – I’ll be the first one to vote for you to eat it
(What do you need enemies for with friends like me? )
Yin: Want some salt with your box? – I’ll be happy to provide the salt…
Second this post will take some points from mostly the beginning of this thread (as I hadn’t noticed this one before) and is quite lengthy as I’m now trying to reply to some statements made here.
About Yin and his value
Originally posted by Locutus
That was in a previous millenium, ones credit only extends for so long -- especially considering what he's done since then...
That was in a previous millenium, ones credit only extends for so long -- especially considering what he's done since then...
What he did on the list for Civ3 is still a merit (He was the first, there will always be people afterwards ready to do it better. Just as when Columbus had found “India”) – now let me see you work N-hundreds of hours for free on something, see it turn not good and still remain a – jolly-good-beliver.
So Yin has his rights to disbelieve – he earned that the hard way on Civ3 and SMAC before that.
About Civ2.7
Originally posted by yin26
For me, the shift from Civ 1 to Civ 2 was rather jarring. Perhaps it's because I was a younger gamer then. Perhaps it was the huge leap in graphics. Whatever you want to call it, Brian Reynolds pulled off something amazing: He made a significantly better gaming experience out of Civ 1. Perhaps there will be those who disagree, but the moment I loaded Civ 2 and started playing, the thought never occured to me ever again to go back and play Civ 1. That era was dead.
For me, the shift from Civ 1 to Civ 2 was rather jarring. Perhaps it's because I was a younger gamer then. Perhaps it was the huge leap in graphics. Whatever you want to call it, Brian Reynolds pulled off something amazing: He made a significantly better gaming experience out of Civ 1. Perhaps there will be those who disagree, but the moment I loaded Civ 2 and started playing, the thought never occured to me ever again to go back and play Civ 1. That era was dead.
Originally posted by Dale
Yin, I do not believe you'll be happy with ANY design that Firaxis brings out. You say Civ1 lacked, and Civ2 fixed it. You say Civ3 is woefull. You say Civ4 is going to be worse.
Yin, I do not believe you'll be happy with ANY design that Firaxis brings out. You say Civ1 lacked, and Civ2 fixed it. You say Civ3 is woefull. You say Civ4 is going to be worse.
Yin: to like or not to like – that’s the question
Originally posted by Dale
Hey Yin,
And BTW, it's not that I take the game so seriously that your opinion strikes a dagger in me. I just don't like you and think you're a knob. That's MY opinion.
Hey Yin,
And BTW, it's not that I take the game so seriously that your opinion strikes a dagger in me. I just don't like you and think you're a knob. That's MY opinion.
Yin does this seam at all familiar to you – remember when I disliked you a lot? No why cann’t I find my post about Yin doing’s before Apolyton (On the SMAC forums)
(long story short – just as Stuie also mentioned)
Yes in the beginning Yin just complained about SMAC and was a pain – then he started a “first” collection of “5 most important bugs and 5 most important gameplay improvements in the next patch”. That process changed him from just complaining to seriously asking, with good explanations and motivations, for better products.
At that time I started to see that actually Yin has good points, very good points – and after that I’ve been a fan of him. He doesn’t believe everything told (like I do) – he wants good products and isn’t afraid to say it (with explanations)
Originally posted by Solver
I would actually have to differ here... I respect Yin's opinion, just like I respect everyone's opinion, but Yin is one of the people to whom I pay more attention simply because he is a veteran that knows Civ and what he's talking about.
I don't think that Yin and me have ever agreed on much, we surely have very different viewpoints on Civ4 now, but I really enjoyed discussing the game in one of Yin's pessimistic threads. In my humble opinion, it's more fun to discuss something with someone whose opinion differs at least somewhat from yours - and whatever some of you may say about Yin, he's no fool - he's certainly able to not merely state his opinions but also show the arguments for them properly. And while I don't agree with most of these arguments, I at least acknowledge them.
Hey, Yin, at least you admitted in that thread that I can also argue intelligently. I'm looking forward to discussing the game with you when it comes out and when we will have had some actual playing experience with it.
I would actually have to differ here... I respect Yin's opinion, just like I respect everyone's opinion, but Yin is one of the people to whom I pay more attention simply because he is a veteran that knows Civ and what he's talking about.
I don't think that Yin and me have ever agreed on much, we surely have very different viewpoints on Civ4 now, but I really enjoyed discussing the game in one of Yin's pessimistic threads. In my humble opinion, it's more fun to discuss something with someone whose opinion differs at least somewhat from yours - and whatever some of you may say about Yin, he's no fool - he's certainly able to not merely state his opinions but also show the arguments for them properly. And while I don't agree with most of these arguments, I at least acknowledge them.
Hey, Yin, at least you admitted in that thread that I can also argue intelligently
. I'm looking forward to discussing the game with you when it comes out and when we will have had some actual playing experience with it.
Why not just relay on own judgement?
Originally posted by Wise Ass
I don't like the idea of waiting to see what people think of civIV. Other people aren't me. If I went just off of reviews then I would have never bought CTP2, which I regard as the revolution that Civ needed.
I don't like the idea of waiting to see what people think of civIV. Other people aren't me. If I went just off of reviews then I would have never bought CTP2, which I regard as the revolution that Civ needed.
Unfortunately some of us have to earn our living and can’t spend all our time playing. So we need to get some info on games to pick up – for me one game I picked up after good recommendations by others was Europa Universalis. Some other games I have left untried after bad opinions. – For Civ4 I’m waiting for player opinions.
So yes, just as here have been discussions – some posters have earned the right to be taken seriously and Yin26 is one of those.
About how to decide if to eat or not to eat the box
Don’t let us vote – I’ll be the first one to vote for you to eat it
(What do you need enemies for with friends like me?
)Yin: Want some salt with your box? – I’ll be happy to provide the salt…
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