Is PC gaming doomed? Apolyton 2008 edition

[Felch]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Whoever replayed Monkey Island? I loved it, but I just don't see how such a game is replayable.

I was gonna say this, but the doc beat me to it.

Halo 3 and CoD 4 have far more replay value than El Cid is giving them credit for. Even if you ignore the online play, which is ****ing silly, the single player campaigns have multiple difficulty, and a range of tactical options. You can play the same mission several times, trying out different tactics and weapons, or beating a score in arcade mode. It's really time for people to give them another look.

I'm not a fan of console RPGs, since for a while that meant Final Fantasy and its whiny casts of characters. But Fallout 3 is awesome, Fable 2 is great, and those are coming out in successive weeks right now. Again, the times are changing.

The only thing I'm into PCs for are strategy, both TBS and RTS. I just can't stand playing those with anything but a mouse and keyboard. But if they came out with a good new system I might get into it. CivRev was good, but it just made me want to play 4.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher


I'm noticing you don't like the concept of variety. More TBS. Yawn.

EU and CK are NOT technically TBS, they are pausable real time though they play very differently from typical RTS games. I would consider them very much an example of variety, of a new thing on PC thats appeared since 1999. The only reason I wouldn't make too big a deal about them is that the latest offerings from Paradox, EU3 and EU:Rome, haven't been quite as well received, IIUC, and the whole series is kind of nichy in terms of sales.

OTOH it is, as always, amusing to see genres like Flight Sims dismissed for their sales numbers. If sales numbers were the true mark of the importance of a genre or sub genre, than surely the mini game collections such as appear on the Wii would be among the most important genres.

[lord of the mark]

Also I'm confused. Isn't Fallout3 going to be released at the same time on PC and console? Wasn't COD4 as well? Is there really as big a difference between a PC and an Xbox 360 as both sides of this "debate" are implying?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DrSpike

as you suggested I kinda miss the BG/NWN style games with more complex progression mechanics. It's a shame these games aren't still getting released much because I would still play them, alongside great console RPGs like Lost Odyssey & Mass Effect (two very different games).

What do you think of Dragon Age? Isn't that supposed to be the new spiritual "heir" of BG?

I would mention Diablo 3, but I've never played anything in that subgenre, let alone the Diablos. Of course Blizzard remains unusual (along with Valve) in their commitment to the PC as a platform.

And speaking of Blizzard, El cid failed to mention RTS, which means that upcoming Starcraft 2 is not mentioned. Or a bunch of other RTS.

Oh, and El Cid didnt begin to properly show ALL the TBS subgenres. No grognard TB wargames.

Also no naval sims.

Or RPG/Strat combos, like SM:Pirates! Or citybuilders.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


EU and CK are NOT technically TBS, they are pausable real time though they play very differently from typical RTS games. I would consider them very much an example of variety, of a new thing on PC thats appeared since 1999. The only reason I wouldn't make too big a deal about them is that the latest offerings from Paradox, EU3 and EU:Rome, haven't been quite as well received, IIUC, and the whole series is kind of nichy in terms of sales.

OTOH it is, as always, amusing to see genres like Flight Sims dismissed for their sales numbers. If sales numbers were the true mark of the importance of a genre or sub genre, than surely the mini game collections such as appear on the Wii would be among the most important genres.

Don't **** around, it's pointless.

Snoopy was assigning stupid percentages, and I'm merely pointing out a tiny niche genre versus an overwhelmingly popular one (with tens of millions of games sold), it makes no sense to give the tiny niche a larger percentage (60/40 split as he had it).

You either knew this, and you wanted to piss me off; or you didn't know it, and you wanted to piss me off.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Also I'm confused. Isn't Fallout3 going to be released at the same time on PC and console? Wasn't COD4 as well? Is there really as big a difference between a PC and an Xbox 360 as both sides of this "debate" are implying?

I don't know if Fallout 3 is or not, but that's the exception, not the rule. If you followed the gaming industry you'd know this.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by DrSpike

If you make posts like that with arguments and examples (as CoT would have), you'll never get problems from me.

That's not to say I really agree, but that's fine. I think I covered off TBS in my post, and there are some genuinely replayable games there that will never be matched on consoles perhaps.
........

Well sadly time is a commodity i dont have for here like i used to, thats just the way it is. But yes i guess we have to agree to disagree, I just dont see the point of getting a current gen console personally, even as a games lover.
Console games dont rock MY boat enough; for light entertainment i prefer a good movie or to watch a football or rugby match? I find console games(90% of the time) to 'light' for my gaming tastes. And that is the basic background of my posts on this.

@ LotM, yes my list wasn't exhaustive, Dr.Spike wanted some specifc examples to highlight the point i was making, so i did what i could with the caveat " I could go on and on and on..." and if i could be bothered to spend a good few days on composing a mega post on the subject I could easily come up with over a dozen PC titles per current console title to show how and where exactly that 'depth/value/replayability' has diminished in modern console games.

But I think those that know what i'm getting at(and have a sufficient PC gaming background) don't need that, and i certainly dont have the time for a 'blow by blow' comparison. But yeah my view is that PC gaming still pawns Console gaming on many levels, if not on sales currently or the amount of new AAA releases.

Whatever i'm a happy "mostly PC only gamer" - I've got more games than I can probably finish, and most of them offer more than a console game can. So i'm happy

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Also I'm confused. Isn't Fallout3 going to be released at the same time on PC and console? Wasn't COD4 as well? Is there really as big a difference between a PC and an Xbox 360 as both sides of this "debate" are implying?

No. If one feels say Fallout 3 is a weak modern game with little replayability, then modding aside this applies to both the 360 and PC versions.

On the CoD4 points, in the context they were raised, what is important is whether or not the game is replayable, not whether it is more or less replayble on different formats (and I don't think it is).

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


What do you think of Dragon Age? Isn't that supposed to be the new spiritual "heir" of BG?

Fingers crossed.

[El_Cid]

Strangely enough a visit this weekend to some of my local bricks and mortar games stores, showed that although shelf space for PC gaming isnt what it was 10 years ago, there were a load of games out I never even knew about. Lots of fantasy rpg type things(wish i had taken a pen to write some of the titles down), lots of new space stuff etc.
Sword of the Stars Collectors edition looked interesting for about £19, I thought, but i'll need to read up on it. Also I was pleased to see Sins of a Solar Empire - I will have to pick both these up next week

Anyway it was quite a surprise to find so much new stuff on the shelves. So is this just a case of PC gaming getting filled up with poor 'knock-outs' of better games? Or is the media so focused on marketing console games that all the PC releases struggle to get the press?

[Traianvs]

PES is released on PC. I've been playing PES6 for a few years now. Great timewaster and beats Fifa hands down. I have heard Fifa has made some progression lately, but heck they wasted their reputation ages ago. No turning back now.

[DrSpike]

That's an odd attitude. PES used to be king but is now just the same game each year, whereas Fifa is striving to make improvements and getting strong reviews.

[Maquiladora]

I haven't played FIFA09 because my PC won't run it, but PES is disappointing again this year. Not as bad as PES08 was, but still not good enough.

Apparently FIFA got a new team in for FIFA08 and have been improving a lot since.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

I don't know if Fallout 3 is or not, but that's the exception, not the rule. If you followed the gaming industry you'd know this.

If you followed the PC gaming industry, esp the strategy side, you'd know that EU and CK are not turn based.

Have a truely lovely day

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DrSpike


No. If one feels say Fallout 3 is a weak modern game with little replayability, then modding aside this applies to both the 360 and PC versions.

On the CoD4 points, in the context they were raised, what is important is whether or not the game is replayable, not whether it is more or less replayble on different formats (and I don't think it is).

well its a bit hard to follow the context in el cids posts. I THOUGHT you guys were arguing about whether PC or Console games had more replayability today. I'm not at all clear why games with or without replayability that are strong presences on BOTH platforms would weigh in either direction. If we were talking a console or PC exclusive, or a game released much later for one platform than the other, I could see it.