Is PC gaming doomed? Apolyton 2008 edition

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
I haven't played FIFA09 because my PC won't run it, but PES is disappointing again this year. Not as bad as PES08 was, but still not good enough.

Apparently FIFA got a new team in for FIFA08 and have been improving a lot since.

Originally posted by Maquiladora
I haven't played FIFA09 because my PC won't run it, but PES is disappointing again this year. Not as bad as PES08 was, but still not good enough.

Apparently FIFA got a new team in for FIFA08 and have been improving a lot since.

After having played the 6 for a long time, I have to say I do like the 08 edition. The only drawback is the awful keepers who can't seem to hold on to a ball, but okay. I like the rest. It feels like the game has become more difficult again, at least for me that is. Whereas I always won an international league against the best teams around while playing with a worthless team and top player difficulty in PES6, I'm now struggling with regular difficulty while playing with Valencia! So it's become a challenge again and it 'feels' a bit different, although I admit most underlying mechanisms are still the same.

Good enough for me.

[Maquiladora]

Football Manager 2009 just failed on an epic scale.

New 3D engine causing crashes, authentication server down for hours on release day, random freezes, other crashes requiring 500mb download of DXSDK, confusion over Steam authentication, no release day patch for MAC users, mixing similar numbers and letters in the key code, mass of 1-star ratings on amazon... and to top it all the protection was cracked on the day of release.

Originally posted by Traianvs

After having played the 6 for a long time, I have to say I do like the 08 edition. The only drawback is the awful keepers who can't seem to hold on to a ball, but okay. I like the rest. It feels like the game has become more difficult again, at least for me that is. Whereas I always won an international league against the best teams around while playing with a worthless team and top player difficulty in PES6, I'm now struggling with regular difficulty while playing with Valencia! So it's become a challenge again and it 'feels' a bit different, although I admit most underlying mechanisms are still the same.

Good enough for me.

PES6 still has the best game play. 08 is all about dribbling and nothing else. They also removed the ability to volley properly in 08 and 09. The only thing different in game play 09 from 08 is the speed of players. Dribbling is still too easy (instant 90 degree turns YAY), but now you need a little more passing because no one has any acceleration.

[Traianvs]

Eh, I think I have the PES 2009 version. I meant that it was released in 2008, a while ago. So I never played the '08' version.

And actually, I'm having it a lot easier making volleys in the latest edition than in PES6.

In PES6 I just passed the ball around in front of the goal, waiting for an opening after which I scored, sometimes with a little dribble accompanying the action. I find that tactic pretty hard in the latest version. Also, throwing a ball in front of goal from the sides is more difficult. In PES6 you can simply do a full stop while running with the ball, then run and finally have enough room to make a good assist. Again this is not possible now.

Another thing is that I used to tap the button twice when giving an assist from the sides, and it would usually end up in front of goal nicely. In 09 you have to tap either once or twice depending on the direction your player is going to get a good ball in front of goal, which is annoying. Just takes some practice I suppose.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Football Manager 2009 just failed on an epic scale.

New 3D engine causing crashes, authentication server down for hours on release day, random freezes, other crashes requiring 500mb download of DXSDK, confusion over Steam authentication, no release day patch for MAC users, mixing similar numbers and letters in the key code, mass of 1-star ratings on amazon... and to top it all the protection was cracked on the day of release.

Sad
I'm sticking with FM2007 +latest 7.0.2 patch:

http://www.sigames.com/downloads.php?type=view&id=381

(I link to it as it took me a while to find it - getting sent to sega's fairly useless site most the time!)

FM2008 introduced SecuRom into the mix(which was also cracked prior to day of release), and i'm just not putting that sh*t(or any simular sh*t) on my system anymore.

And after talking to some of the main people at sega that make the decisions on DRM etc I sadly didn't hold out much hope for 2009.

Still from playing this series of games since the old Championship Manager days, i'd say FM2007 might be the best in the series.....although the old CM 01-02 era(when Sigagames were still involved in that production) was pretty good also.

It seems a sad fact that most AAA developers these days look on PC gaming so unfavourably that you can almost gaurantee they will botch the game somehow(nasty DRM, poor console-pc port etc). Still I can't get satisfied with most console games, so the PC is still where i prefer to game, hoping things will get better!

AAA purchases are very rare for me currently, most new games i'm getting are coming from indies or smaller mainstream companies. And some of these and a whole host of older games i've yet to play keep me happy

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Then your setup can't be that bad.

Update - just finished a Civ 4 game that went well into the late game, heaps of units (on a standard size map though) native res (1280 by 1024) on high settings.

Note again, this is a circa 2006 budget PC that cost $250, with circa 2004 IG, upgraded to 1.5 gig RAM.

More support for taking HW discussions around here with a grain of salt.

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by snoopy369
For my take, the split goes:

TBS: PC 100% - not playable on consoles really (CivRev )
RTS: PC 95% - not playable on consoles really, though some strides are made in this
FPS: Console 80%, PC 20% - Playable on PC largely only as console ports, though user mods are a bit easier on PC still.
RPG: PC/Console 50/50 - Different styles work better on the different machines, party-based RPGs still work better on the PC; and there are a lot of good indy RPGs that are by nature only available on the PC. Mainstream RPGs are definitely mostly on the Console.
Sports: Console 75%, PC 25% - Play-as-the-player sports games are entirely Console, while roster management sports games are nearly entirely PC (ie Front Office Football, etc.)
Puzzle: PC 60%, Console 40% - PC has the advantage of play-at-work, while Console is starting to get simply better games here (ie, Braid). Flash games though give PC the edge here, for now.
Platformer: Console 95% - PC never really got into these. Indy platformers are the only reason PC gets any credit here at all.
Flight/racing sims: PC 60%, Console 40%. Only because flight sims (PC 90%) are far cooler than racing sims (Console 80%), and PC has better accessories (ie, racing wheels and such), though console has caught up largely in this department.

Thanks for giving us a rundown from the year 2003.

How are the total sales of all PC vs. all consoles games going these years, $-wise? I'm under the impression that console games have been pwning PC for some time now.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by VJ

Thanks for giving us a rundown from the year 2003.

How are the total sales of all PC vs. all consoles games going these years, $-wise? I'm under the impression that console games have been pwning PC for some time now.

thats a matter of some debate, topics including the true amount of direct download PC sales (steam et al) not cauptured by NPD, whether and how to count MMO subscription revenue, online purchases of casual games, and issues involving data from markets other than North America.

I've tried to point out some of this upthread, including the PC Gaming Alliance's attempt to improve the data situation, but apparently that is all considered spam.

[El_Cid]

I think, in terms of AAA releases, if publishers stop making games for PC's then that is a good sign on how much they can make from the sales. It's a money first, everything else second type of industry because of the risks and cost involved nowadays.

So i would say thats why only a few PC only tiltles are still getting made from the big guys, consoles just have much better profit margins for most publishers.

Does that mean console gaming is better? of course not, but then i'm one of the few that has decided to stick with my PC(and a few older consoles) over this gen, and future gen of consoles. I just like the games i can pay on PC better, ones that i can't play on console(so we are talking strat and simulation type games).

[FrostyBoy]

Sales is irrelevant when you consider the average Xbox player to be under the age of 20. Anyone under that age these days has been born into a world where Xbox is for games, PC is for Internet. In other words, they're dumbasses and they're going to ruin the industry, just like all new generations do, simply because they didn't know any better.

Consoles are easier to make games for.

PC's are better for actual gaming.


Microsoft wants to own the industry, by controlling what you do on your PC and what you play on your XBox, by doing this, they become wealthy bastards. By playing your Xbox, you give Microsoft the unnecessary power. There is no reason, NO REASON AT ALL, your PC can't play all the games you play on your Xbox. Want to play with the controller? You can. Want to use your TV instead of the monitor? You can do that too. There is NOTHING your PC can't do that your Xbox can.

I'll say it again, you use an Xbox for gaming, you give Microsoft the power to control the industry.

Say No to the XBox and take the journey to recovery.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Sales is irrelevant......

Sorry Frosty, but sales are the bottom line, ask any publisher or developer. Look at the industry reported sales of console games vs PC. Overall you are safer making games for console. Sad but true.

.....when you consider the average Xbox player to be under the age of 20. Anyone under that age these days has been born into a world where Xbox is for games, PC is for Internet. In other words, they're dumbasses and they're going to ruin the industry, just like all new generations do, simply because they didn't know any better.

To a large extent i completely agree, but not all new gamers are dumbasses(not that many Ashers in the world ), ignorant yes often, spoilt on all the glossy graphics so that makes them dismiss real great old games....sure. But not dumbasses.

Consoles are easier to make games for.

True, especially in a PC gaming world where false or created and manipulated system specs(for the sake of hardware profits etc) have turned around and bitten the PC game making sector in the backside. What do you aim for as a developer now? How stable will it run? etc

PC's are better for actual gaming.

Debatable. depends on the game and genre and skill of the devs. Each platform has its streangths and weakness. I prefer PC gaming overall.

Microsoft wants to own the industry, by controlling what you do on your PC and what you play on your XBox, by doing this, they become wealthy bastards. By playing your Xbox, you give Microsoft the unnecessary power. There is no reason, NO REASON AT ALL, your PC can't play all the games you play on your Xbox. Want to play with the controller? You can. Want to use your TV instead of the monitor? You can do that too. There is NOTHING your PC can't do that your Xbox can.

I'll say it again, you use an Xbox for gaming, you give Microsoft the power to control the industry.

Say No to the XBox and take the journey to recovery.

Yes it is obvious what MS wants, they have always been that way. But thanks to them we have a great history AND future of gaming to enjoy. I think it is very easy in life to polarise view points like this, kind of a bushism "your with us or against us" attitude. I dont think that actualy helps anyone.

But sure it's good to be aware of the issues

Look at Vista as an example of where a certain attitude can get you, and i'm very hopeful that further moves down this path by MS will be equally unlikely to achieve their mission statements. People dont like being controlled in general, and ****ty software making things more difficult/less secure/more locked down just doesn't turn people on.
MS is quite smart, and hopefuly they will see the best way forward for everyone is for everyone, not just themselves.

[DarkCloud]

Sales is irrelevant when you consider the average Xbox player to be under the age of 20.

Really? I seem to recall surveys indicating that the average age of console players was in the upper twenties.

That being said, I cannot produce those statistics, but it honestly seems like you just made up your number. Perhaps Asher can oblige since he's more in-tune with the console gaming community.

[DarkCloud]

Look at Vista as an example of where a certain attitude can get you, and i'm very hopeful that further moves down this path by MS will be equally unlikely to achieve their mission statements. People dont like being controlled in general, and ****ty software making things more difficult/less secure/more locked down just doesn't turn people on.
MS is quite smart, and hopefuly they will see the best way forward for everyone is for everyone, not just themselves.

* From what I have read, the newest iteration of Windows will be "more like Vista" in every way. Basically Microsoft will be remaking the interface to look like the evil and UNMOVABLE OR ALTERABLE Office 2007 suite of software interface. Instead of opening options, Windows 8 will constrain more

* And heavens, people like Macs', the original proprietary system, do they not?

MS is quite smart, and hopefuly they will see the best way forward for everyone is for everyone, not just themselves.

? What other option do people have? Macs have traditionally been even more locked down than windows. And Linux certainly is not user-friendly.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Sales is irrelevant when you consider the average Xbox player to be under the age of 20.

You can consider that, but those are not the facts.

The last statistics I saw, which I quoted about a year ago on Poly, showed the average Xbox 360 gamer to be 29 or 30.

[Asher]

The latest study I've found puts it much later:



This particular study also shows that maybe Nintendo hasn't actually captured the granny market like the media says...

[DrSpike]

You appear to be losing your stamina Asher as there were an awful lot of very stupid remarks in the same post for you to rail at.