Is PC gaming doomed? Apolyton 2008 edition

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/sep/11/gamesinterviews.microsoft

Nintendo got back into the market by reaching the demographics – the children and the women – that Microsoft had been unable to reach, because Xbox culture is still very much male-orientated… Why is that?

Well, it all goes back to the original premise of what Microsoft felt that at that time they needed to do be successful – to even get into the conversation. And so to launch the Xbox it needed to be very clear that this was not going to be PC games ported over – Flight Sim, Age of Empires, things like that. They needed to win the hearts and minds of the hardcore gamers, and there's no better way to do that than with blood, guts and bullets. That was the idea – it was hardcore.

And remember the ad in the UK – Champagne – which again was only shown once before it was banned, which was the baby being born, being catapulted through the air and ending up as the old guy in the grave… that set the tone. The theory was, rightly or wrongly, that if you win the hardcore gamer, then you can grow from the core – you can never go the other way. You hold your core but then you bring in the masses. But we were so good at what we did the first time around that it was difficult, then, to evolve.

Why must you torture this site with your bull****?

The Xbox 360 was developed for and aimed towards the hardcore gamer. It was already posting a profit by the time they also tried to "me too" with the casual gaming crowd that the Wii had captured.

I don't know how many times I have to ****ing repeat this before it gets into your head. You're posting articles that do not refute it but with no reason given for quoting them. Why do you torture us like this? Spare us. Stop posting or put thought into what you're posting, perhaps do some elementary research just for once.

[MJW]

It's cute how Asher thinks he can change LotM.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by MJW
It's cute how Asher thinks he can change LotM.

I wonder if LOTM is simply trolling him, surely he must grasp that it matters not any opinions,quotes or insite, ya aint changing ASHER'S mind

[MJW]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


I wonder if LOTM is simply trolling him, surely he must grasp that it matters not any opinions,quotes or insite, ya aint changing ASHER'S mind

LotM is not a troll (he has made some OT posts that did not set anything up). He is just so...(can not say anything).

Asher has changed his mind about the Wii. He thought it would go down (because he thinks its trash). That was wrong--it took a long time for him to accept it--but he did.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by MJW


LotM is not a troll (he has made some OT posts that did not set anything up). He is just so...(can not say anything).

Asher has changed his mind about the Wii. He thought it would go down (because he thinks its trash). That was wrong--it took a long time for him to accept it--but he did.

Yeah, LOTM just didnt seem that way..he does however have an indomitable spirit..impressive indeed

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


Yeah, LOTM just didnt seem that way..he does however have an indomitable spirit..impressive indeed

thank you sir. I'm certainly not determined to change the mind of any one individual. I think it is pretty clear from the Peter Moore quote that MS expected to expand beyond the hard core market from the beginning, when they were developing the original Xbox. Of course they did especially succeed with the hard core, and perhaps they weren't thinking of that when they designed the 360. The Moore quote does not speak to that. Asher is certainly correct, they were making a marginal profit on each machine sold by the time they announced the new approach to casuals. That does not persuade me that the return to the overall Xbox line over time was not a concern.


I would love to get back talking about PC gaming though.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
thank you sir. I'm certainly not determined to change the mind of any one individual. I think it is pretty clear from the Peter Moore quote that MS expected to expand beyond the hard core market from the beginning, when they were developing the original Xbox.

Which would make sense unless you know the industry. Namely, Peter Moore joined MS 4 years after the Xbox project was launched and 1 year after the Xbox 360 project had started.

It's also patently obvious that MS had no intentions of going for the "casual market" with the original Xbox, which was purely for the hardcore. If you could name more than two Xbox games, this would be obvious to you.

It's also patently obvious that with the first year plus for the Xbox 360 they were targetting the hardcore market still, which is it's stranglehold. It was not until after the Wii's success, which also coincided with MS first turning a profit on the 360 (pedantic disclaimer: I did not say they made a profit on each physical unit sold, just that the product is turning a profit -- that's a massive difference in the console world).

Of course they did especially succeed with the hard core, and perhaps they weren't thinking of that when they designed the 360. The Moore quote does not speak to that.

Before you continue to grab this thread by the lovehandles and pound it hard, let's revisit your quote:

I do think the losses matter, even to MS, and may effect (SIC) their future strategies. MS has already responded by apparently accelerating their move to casuals.

Your quote implies the move to casuals was a move to stoke profitability. The problems is, as I have been saying, they were posting profits in the division before they started pushing hard for casuals. And, as any console observer would know, this push coincided with the runaway success of the Wii with the casual gamers. The push for casuals was not profit-oriented, but to try to prevent Nintendo from selling the most consoles.

In fact, MS' push towards casuals right now is probably hurting their profitability and NOT helping them. The Arcade unit -- aimed at casuals -- is the smallest in terms of profit margin and in reality is likely still losing them money per unit sold.

I would love to get back talking about PC gaming though.

I've no doubt that you would after this thrashing. You know little about PC gaming as well, but at least it's more than you know about console gaming. That's a start.

[DrSpike]

Most of that seems ok, but I think it's pretty clear that MS is now trying to jump on the me too casual bandwagon, emulating the undeniable success of the Wii. Whether or not this was to turn losses into profits, or make small profits slightly bigger, seems rather beside the point.

[Asher]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Most of that seems ok, but I think it's pretty clear that MS is now trying to jump on the me too casual bandwagon, emulating the undeniable success of the Wii.

That's exactly what I said, several times. Nice detective work.

[DrSpike]

The last bit you declined to quote is key. You seem to be bashing LotM around the point around turning losses into profits, whereas it seems to me it doesn't really matter for the overall point whether it was turning losses into profits, or small profits into bigger ones, the chase after casual gamers is now the goal.

[Asher]

Originally posted by DrSpike
The last bit you declined to quote is key. You seem to be bashing LotM around the point around turning losses into profits, whereas it seems to me it doesn't really matter for the overall point whether it was turning losses into profits, or small profits into bigger ones, the chase after casual gamers is now the goal.

Whether you think it doesn't matter doesn't matter to me. Feel free to quote that.

I'm merely pointing out what LOTM was saying was demonstrably factually incorrect. Don't get on my case if you don't think that matters. Facts matter, *****.

[DrSpike]

Well perhaps you would consider developing some judgement about which facts are essential for arguments, and which facts are mere trimming, without affecting the thrust of the argument. It's a difficult skill, and I agree that if you want to bash someone it's always easier to pick out something you can quickly falsify.

Odd though that when you are caught out in factual inaccuracies you are the first to argue that your point remains true regardless.

[Asher]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Well perhaps you would consider developing some judgement about which facts are essential for arguments, and which facts are mere trimming, without affecting the thrust of the argument. It's a difficult skill, and I agree that if you want to bash someone it's always easier to pick out something you can quickly falsify.

Odd though that when you are caught out in factual inaccuracies you are the first to argue that your point remains true regardless.

This is demonstrably false!

I've had just about enough of your lying and falsities.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Asher
It's also patently obvious that MS had no intentions of going for the "casual market" with the original Xbox, which was purely for the hardcore.

Fusion Frenzy is about as hardcore as Paul McCartney.

[Asher]

Yeah, there's the odd game they published (but didn't develop) like Fusion Frenzy, it doesn't mean it was a demographic they were actively going for.