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  • #46
    Dr. Steinman was excellent. Absolutely going nuts through the diaries, and meeting him was also a memorable moments.

    But those viva chambers... yeah... I think I'd just disable them on the Hard difficulty and probably compensate with slightly larger EVE so you can continue to use plasmids without being revived. That'd be a better setup for challenge.
    Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
    Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
    I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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    • #47
      Slowly making (and fighting) my way through the game. You can view&change the sort of plasmids you have later in the game. You'll know it when you see it. The viva chambers do make things too easy though. I can understand why they did it, ease the flow of the game, otherwise you would have just reloaded a savegame.
      Still, it would have been better if you could only activate one or two per location and/or needed to invest a bit of "adam" to activate them (would have made a nice subquest). Some physics puzzles would have been nice as well. You can bump things, throw or knock them about but I apart from "getting that unreachable syringe or ammobox on that very high ledge" i haven't seen anything special. Most "puzzles" are combat oriented e.a "how do i make effective use of my surroundings?"

      Storywise Bioshock is topnotch, a step above SS2. You really get a feeling of empathy for some of the characters, others you just want to blow away once you finally meet them.
      Skeptics should forego any thought of convincing the unconvinced that we hold the torch of truth illuminating the darkness. A more modest, realistic, and achievable goal is to encourage the idea that one may be mistaken. Doubt is humbling and constructive; it leads to rational thought in weighing alternatives and fully reexamining options, and it opens unlimited vistas.

      Elie A. Shneour Skeptical Inquirer

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      • #48
        Yeah, the viva chambers need a change - I just figured out that hacking is a positive-sum game. If you succeed in a hack, you get the advantages of a friendly turret/camera/whatever. If you overload the machine and it kills you, the worst you get is a short walk from the nearest viva chamber. Maybe a failed hack should disallow further hack attempts on the same machine.
        Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
        Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
        I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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        • #49
          IIRC, back in System Shock 2, the revive chamber didn't work until you got to it and switched it on, and from that point it would return you at a small cost in nanites. The surgery beds would heal you for a small cost in nanites, but only after you'd found one of the limited keys and activated it. They should probably have made the viva chambers not work until you turned it on, then cost something like 5 Adam or $20 per revivification.
          Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

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          • #50
            Well, the game is very... moron-proof. You can't drown in the opening section, you get revived after dying, you aren't punished for failing a hack - and you can get those hints if you're stuck (admittedly, a good feature).
            Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
            Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
            I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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            • #51
              I wish there was a "jump back 5 seconds option." For times when you accidentally shoot at a Big Daddy surrounded by several splicers

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              • #52
                Ha! I've done that several times, and had a similar one where I broke a window in Fort Frolic while shooting at a splicer (it sounds an alarm and sends security bots after you).
                Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

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                • #53
                  Big Daddies surely are your most powerful weapon. Enrage or Hypnotize one and there's a killing machine doing the killing for you...
                  Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                  Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                  I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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                  • #54
                    Wow, viva chambers are bad... if Bioshock is 10-points otherwise, at least a point needs to be deducted for them.

                    Had a standoff situation... you know, hold off enemies in an area for some time. Enemies coming at you, security system on your side, in any other FPS game this is one of the high-points and a generally amazing moment. In Bioshock, it's just above-average, if you get killed, you just reappear in the middle of that area... heck, you could be standing there holding your dong and you still wouldn't fail the standoff.

                    I'm just surprised more than anything else. It looks like it's definitely the best FPS since Half-Life 2, but at the same time it has one of the poorest implementations of a feature in recent years. That's even worse than the implementations of money and quests in Stalker, and that's saying something.

                    There are lots of amazing little moments, though. After I freed a Little Sister, I saw one of the Big Daddies walking around and pounding on those vents, trying to find out where the Little Sister was. Or that moment where you meet the botanist in Arcadia - you'll know what I mean if you've been there
                    Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                    Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                    I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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                    • #55
                      I enjoy it when I can play it. Seems pretty random when it will load on my comp at the moment.
                      “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                      "Capitalism ho!"

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                      • #56
                        Well, well. I'm done with it.

                        Overall, a fantastic game. Currently seems to be the top contender for this year's GOTY prizes, though there are other big titles coming up - World in Conflict, Crysis, Quake Wars.

                        Bioshock's outstanding areas are sound, atmosphere and delivery of the story. It's not just the great voice acting - it's possible the best use of environmental and ambient sounds in any game. I've paused my game several times while playing to check if the floor creaking, banging on the wall and whatnot was in-game or in reality! The propaganda commercials/announcements in particular are wonderfully acted. The soundtrack is excellent for brining about that 50ies feeling.

                        Atmosphere is definitely the most elusive thing in game design... everyone likes a good atmosphere, but it's not something you can put your finger on. If designing levels is architecture, creating AIs is science and recording sounds is art, then creating an atmosphere is mysticism. Atmosphere is the hidden component making the difference between a very good game and an excellent game.

                        Bioshock's atmosphere is excellent throughout. It's in how you piece the story together from visual clues and audio diaries, it's in what you can hear the splicers say, it's in that feeling that Rapture could once have been almost an Utopia. And in the present, there's a creepy atmosphere in many parts of the game, which is highly appropriate.

                        Here I have to mention Ft. Frolic. It is, in my opinion, the game's best level - I would go as far as to say that it's one of the best levels in gaming. It should become a classic. Ft. Frolic comes across as very creepy without having any jump-at-you scares, and it has a moment that is wonderful in its surrealism - check what I'm talking about below.

                        Spoiler:
                        I mean, of course, when Sander Cohen sends the splicers after you and the classical ballet music starts playing. It is one of those moments that will be making its way into my list of most memorable gaming moments.


                        Strong characters are another resounding success of Bioshock - though most of your interaction is limited to radio messages and audio diaries, you get to develop different emotions towards the characters. I sympathized with Atlas. I felt repulsed by and sorry for Steinman, who was gradually losing his mind. I absolutely loathed Suchong and wanted to beat him with the wrench myself. I was amazed at Cohen in a "wow he's really nuts!" way. And, of course, I was intrigued by Ryan - a character who offers some interesting social commentary.

                        Ryan is a memorable character. Definite Ayn Rand influences there with a 1984 twist. Ryan doesn't do too many interesting things in the game - he does, however, say lots of insightful things. His idea that morality should be abolished for the sake of progress is as interesting as it is disturbing.

                        I liked the whole story. At first, it doesn't move along very fast. You get to piece the story of Rapture together, but there's not much concerning you and there's not much in terms of plot twists. That changes later. Bioshock is certainly one of those games where you should stay away from spoilers. You don't want to get this spoiled. My take on the biggest plot twist below.

                        Spoiler:
                        The whole "Would you kindly" deal is a genius twist. I noticed that Atlas says it a lot and thought it adds to the character - many people have a phrase they repeat often, and Atlas being polite made him more likeable. The twist is a great surprise... and moreover, it gives an in-game explanation of why you couldn't do things any other way (like siding with Ryan vs. Atlas). And,of course, it's followed by the great scene in Ryan's office.


                        My negative impressions are all about the game's challenge, or rather the fact that there is barely any. I've mentioned the horror that the vita-chambers are in previous posts. A stain of mud on an amazing painting. A great effort for additional continuity, but at the expense of removing all challenge from the game.

                        Challenge is all about having limited resources - health first and foremost in a FPS game. Most things in Bioshock are unlimited. Hacking is a positive-sum game. If you succeed, great. If you fail, you may die, so come back and try again, because, oh, you don't quite die. So there are no difficult enemies either, as you can just come back to finish them off. At least reset their health, too, if you must have those respawns!

                        I didn't abuse the vita chambers. In game terms, it's actually advantageous to die in numerous situations, but I played with a genuine attempt not to die. That's the only way to create some challenge for yourself - go kill Elite Bouncers while dying only once or not at all.

                        Yeah, the whole hacking system is far overpowered even without the vita-chamber aspect. You can hack a machine an unlimited amount of times! I'd have a failed hack result in no more attempts on that machine, whereas an overload disables the machine completely. Another oversight is that cameras are among the easiest hacks in the game. Come on. Splicers never attack cameras and a hacked camera will give you security bots every time it spots an enemy. Only RPG turrets are - maybe - more useful to hack.

                        This lack of challenge did hurt the experience for me. There were several fights in Bioshock which would have been very memorable if it weren't for the easy hacks and respawns. I realize that this is largely by design - Bioshock doesn't aim to challenge, instead letting you choose how to kill your enemies. But that is what difficulty levels are for. I hope they can manage to add a fourth difficulty level in a patch that would make a bunch of changes to the game, disabling vita-chambers first and foremost.

                        The actual combat is very fun, though. Bioshock does succeed at offering you numerous ways to approach a combat situation. The various combinations of plasmids are fun. I particularly enjoyed Incinerate followed by an electric buckshot. Telekinesis is fun for a bit of Half-Life 2 style smackdown. Getting Big Daddies on your side can provide some highly satisfying results.

                        I have to mention Bioshock's AI. I was quite impressed. No, it's not that the enemies are the smartest I've ever seen. It's not that they display any impressive team work. It's just that they act realistically. They appear to use the vending machines. They run to heal when damaged, if they can. The splicer AI is realistic, and the things they say just adds to the impression that they are still sane to a degree.

                        Finally, my impression about the game's final part - don't read unless you've finished it.

                        Spoiler:
                        The final boss fight disappointed me. And I hear that Ken Levine was disappointed, too. Bioshock is, all in all, a fairly original game. After all that, a final boss that you have to kill a few times in different forms felt like a let down. There was even nothing quite special to the fight. It was similar to so many other FPS games. It wasn't bad compared to the average game, but from a game of Bioshock's caliber, I expected a better last stand.


                        There are two FPS games I regard as perfect. That's Half-Life 2 and Deus Ex. Very different games, actually. "Perfect" doesn't mean that I can't find anything to criticize or to improve - I am a ruthless critic. Perfect means, first and foremost, that I didn't feel anything was missing or poorly done while playing. More elaborately:

                        1. I didn't hate any feature.
                        2. I didn't hate any level/chapter.
                        3. Graphics/art, sound and music, combat and story were at a consistent high level.
                        4. Excellent atmosphere.

                        And that important feeling that nothing is missing. There are other games where I didn't hate any part and which were good throughout, but I did feel like something was missing, so they aren't "perfect". Bioshock won't be becoming the third game on this list of mine, but it will surely remain in my memory as one of the best games I've played and I know I'll play it again.
                        Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                        Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                        I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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                        • #57
                          Great review, Solver. I'm not quite done the game yet myself, but I'd agree with pretty much everything you say. Ft. Frolic is a fantastic piece of design. And the Vita-chambers do take away a sense of urgency within the game; there were occasions where I'd say to myself "well, I don't want to waste the first aid kits, so I'll just die here and respawn down the hall to come right back." With such a creepy, successful atmosphere to the game, the Vitachambers take away what would probably be some excellent survivor tension.
                          I make movies. Come check 'em out.

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                          • #58
                            there were occasions where I'd say to myself "well, I don't want to waste the first aid kits, so I'll just die here and respawn down the hall to come right back."


                            I sure know what you mean, and that's what I avoided on purpose. If I was low on health and had a medkit, I used it. Otherwise it'd feel too cheap for me. How far in the game are you now?

                            Here's what I'd like to see on the fourth difficulty:

                            1. Vita chambers are disabled. Since that means you can't die to regenerate EVE, maybe slightly increase the player's maximum amount of EVE. My only concern with disabling the chambers is that the first few Big Daddies may be too hard (I found them becoming much easier later in the game).

                            2. A more punishing hacking system, where overload disables the machine and a failed hack doesn't allow for extra hack attempts. Hacking can be scaled to difficulty. Like leave Medium as it is now, add the overload penalty on Hard and the one-attempt system on the 4th level.

                            Oh, one more difficulty complaint. I found Adam to be quite plentiful. I rescued all Little Sisters in the game (except 2 that I left alone), and I had pretty much enough Adam to get me what I wanted. Given that harvesting Sisters gives twice as much Adam, it'd be way too much!
                            Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                            Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                            I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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                            • #59
                              I'm not done yet but I agree with the assessments above so far.

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                              • #60
                                Solver, on the subject of rescue vs harvesting the little sisters:
                                Spoiler:
                                you don't get the rewards if you harvest them
                                so I expect that makes up the difference.

                                I finished it this morning, and I can't disagree with anything you've said in your review of it. I'd leave the viva chambers in game, personally, but make a couple of changes: 1) all viva chambers but the first in a given region are disabled until you activate them, which costs 5 Adam, and 2) the first resurrection from a chamber is free, the second costs 5 Adam, the third 10 Adam, the fourth 15 Adam, and so on. Then the player would have to choose how many and which viva chambers to turn on. You could save Adam by not activating any, but a death would make you run back from the start, or you could strategically turn on one or two others per level for more convenient rezzing. Even then a progressive cost would make dying a bad thing, which is what you want.

                                On hacking, I agree. An overload should disable the machine completely, and a shutdown or alarm should prevent any further hacking attempt. However, the player should have the opportunity to back out before any of these happen without causing any setbacks to make up for it.

                                I also agree about the final fight. That wasn't bad, and I loathe boss fights with a passion! Overall, it was a spectacular game, and well worth the money I spent on it.
                                Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

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