FG: Galactic Overlord 17: "Fool's Rush in."

[Spaced Cowboy]

Flubber is right, I made a bad mistake...again.

The one-eyed monster takes additional damage.

6 more laser cruisers, 1 torpedo frigate, and 11 torpedo cruisers are toast.

[Spaced Cowboy]

Three orders have been submitted, you can resubmit if desired.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ljube



I'll let Flubber decide on his own if he was smart enough.

"Smart enough"??-- nope -- I did not win and was eliminated relatively early.



This turn I again sought allies but to no avail-- I should have attacked someone and made a msitake in not doing so.


The one thing I found interesting was that not once can I recall players approaching me for an allied action, even the players I had worked with on the prior turn. AS a new player in a game where wight of BPs is so huge, that was surprising to me. I got lots of "talk to me later in the game".

I'm dead and thats fine but anyone that lacks an ally should know we "coulda been a contender"

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ljube
Mutual annihilation? Sure it happened. I GMed that game. It was the same setting (MLL vs LML double close in).

It a pretty obvious way to have a LOT of damage both ways. Thats why I was surprised to see how many players use in the hopeless defence an OOB that matches the attackers most likely OOB. Big fleets often die without causing any damage. That just seems wrong to me

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Ljube
Lesson No. 2:

Events are divided in two groups: Casual Events and Hard Core Events better known as joncha-Events.

Hard Core Events are as follows: Kassiopeia (EQ 100), joncha (EQ approx 93), Jaguar (EQ approx 90), Skanky Burns (EQ approx 70).

Yes, yes, YES! My life is complete! I was only about 80 the last time, I think.

[Jaguar]

Flubber, addressing your first post:

I think that a lot of players have networks of allies developed. Not necessarily ones they use every game, but at least people they can trust to join with them in an attack. In your first game, you didn't yet have those networks, while other people did. Generally an alliance of more than two or three gets rather unwieldy, and until people's allies are dead, they don't seek new ones.

Regarding the LML: I wholeheartedly approve of it. And not just because it destroyed the defending champion duo alliance. It also destroyed the little equilibrium we've had going that has made the game boring and predictable. There's no statistical difference between MLL and LML, for example. People think that MLL is "less risky" because you don't have your M up against the other person's maneuvered weapon, but that's totally wrong. As demonstrated in the battle above, MLL vs LML leads to one big hit for the fleet with the first OOB, and two smaller hits for the fleet with the second. The smaller hits would add up exactly to the bigger hit with even fleets.

But, I think, because of the false perception that the MLL type OOB is less risky, it's become popular, eventually to the point that everyone maneuvers in the first slot.

It's a bad mistake for defenders to always use the M first. The attackers will always have enough firepower to overcome the defender's most powerful weapon, or else they wouldn't have attacked in the first place. So by using an M first, the defender just assures that he won't inflict any damage.

By using the M in both first and second slots, he has a deterrent. The attacker must be prepared to counter significant firepower in all three of the first slots, or be prepared to take significant losses. Ultimately, that leads to fewer attacks on the defender.

I think this should serve as an example that doing something unpredictable can help you in surprising ways.

[Ben Kenobi]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147214&perpage=75&pagenumber=2

This is the last time we had dual lazzorgeddon.

The fact that Flubber nearly pulled this off against an allied navy is astonishing.

[Kassiopeia]

It was nice carnage, but he did get eliminated in the end... but there's now the deterrent. It does make people have to guess whether to throw M first or second once again, though. I guess we needed a new player to break the pattern.

And just because I use erronous reasoning, doesn't mean everyone else is using it.

[snoopy369]

I wholeheartedly approve of going out with a bang

- says the guy making out with his girlfriend in the flow cytometry room

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
It was nice carnage, but he did get eliminated in the end... but there's now the deterrent.

Yup I did get eliminated. Basically I took a shot since if I wasn't attacked this turn I would be among the more powerful and would have shielded next turn. I "knew" that with 6 bases I was a likely target but surviving the turn with these bases gave me a chance to be a game leader.


So I took a chance. I was wrong . As a newb I probably didn't fully appreciate the liklihood that I would be attacked by skanky/kassi. I thought it was a 50/50 shot for the very reason that a newb would be unpredictable in their OOB and players would not want to risk exactly what happened.

Originally posted by Kassiopeia It does make people have to guess whether to throw M first or second once again, though. I guess we needed a new player to break the pattern.

I want to be unpredictable so I could also use LLT too. Two thirds of the damage was done by the attack against the M anyway .

But the pattern that needs to be examined is the "safe"
laser close in , spread out IMHO. Everyone seems to know that it cannot be "beaten" so almost everyone seems to use it. The double close in was the cause of the spectacular damage.

I pretty much knew what the OOB for the any attacker would be . That makes this game predictable in its tactics. If this reminder (and thats all it was because it was nothing you all didn'y already know) shakes up the tactics a bit, then my work is done.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


The fact that Flubber nearly pulled this off against an allied navy is astonishing.

Nope-- I'm still dead. What I had wanted to do was find an ally and ally defend. In that case I would have gone MLL if we could have a greater weight in lasers -- and win with no losses or not too bad depending on whether the skanky kassi torpedos got to fire.

But I was a bit late trying to find said ally and there was a chance they could backstab or be pinned by a spy and I would then have gone out without a whimper.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Jaguar

I think that a lot of players have networks of allies developed. Not necessarily ones they use every game, but at least people they can trust to join with them in an attack. In your first game, you didn't yet have those networks, while other people did. Generally an alliance of more than two or three gets rather unwieldy, and until people's allies are dead, they don't seek new ones.

yup and I tried to get allies from the pre-build stage but usually heard "call me again later"-- I opportunistically joined in on two attacks that had failed on prior turns due to shielding -- Folks seemed to want more tonnage in case of allied defense.

Originally posted by Jaguar
.

Regarding the LML: I wholeheartedly approve of it. And not just because it destroyed the defending champion duo alliance. It also destroyed the little equilibrium we've had going that has made the game boring and predictable. There's no statistical difference between MLL and LML, for example. People think that MLL is "less risky" because you don't have your M up against the other person's maneuvered weapon, but that's totally wrong. As demonstrated in the battle above, MLL vs LML leads to one big hit for the fleet with the first OOB, and two smaller hits for the fleet with the second. The smaller hits would add up exactly to the bigger hit with even fleets.

But, I think, because of the false perception that the MLL type OOB is less risky, it's become popular, eventually to the point that everyone maneuvers in the first slot.

It's a bad mistake for defenders to always use the M first. The attackers will always have enough firepower to overcome the defender's most powerful weapon, or else they wouldn't have attacked in the first place. So by using an M first, the defender just assures that he won't inflict any damage.

By using the M in both first and second slots, he has a deterrent. The attacker must be prepared to counter significant firepower in all three of the first slots, or be prepared to take significant losses. Ultimately, that leads to fewer attacks on the defender.

I think this should serve as an example that doing something unpredictable can help you in surprising ways.

well it didn't help me at all but in going through the last few game threads I did find the tactics used to be largely predictable.


So overall its all the same-- I'm dead . . . eliminated early just like any weak newb type player-- But yet somehow I feel that in a small way, I have made an impact on this game

[Kassiopeia]

I wouldn't say our attacking you was a foregone conclusion. You weren't the only consideration. I can see and do understand your reasoning for huddling this round.

[Flubber]

Cian Pollis rose from his narrow bunk and surveyed his surroundings in the murky light. "Concrete and iron !! With even a small laser pistol, i could be out of here in seconds" he mused.

But he knew that this was futile thinking. Above his antiquated dungeon quarters he knew that the planet was completely under the dominion of others. With no fleet and no bases there was no influence , no power. His imprisonment, while expected, was wholly unneccesary. Ciann was a disheveled husk of his former self and spent hours of solitude dreaming of galactic dominion " Perhaps somehow, somewhere I will get the opportunity to show how truly powerful a galaxy under my command could be"

Ciann shuffled across the spartan cell and stepped up onto the overturned wastebasket so as to peer through the small slitted window to the outside. He could just see the spaceship fabrication yard of Zol Ventis in the dawn light. As usual he took a small measure of pride in viewing the arrayed collection of burned out hulls from the recent battle.

"Ah but my men could fight. . . . . a group of fighting men to make any commander proud". But then, as he did every morning, Ciann's eyes spied the memorial to his fleet and the momentary pride was overshadowerd with grief. "If only such men had had a better commander"

--------------------------------------------------------------------

On that same morning, a message was received by a fleet commander

FLEET OF GENERAL ODIN AND ZOL VENTIS SPOTTED. OUTLOOK IS HOPELESS BUT HAVE ORDERED WE GIVE NO QUARTER. I ASK THAT YOU AVENGE MY DEFEAT.

The commander crumpled the message and glanced at the estimates of the Odin and Ventis fleets. Both were very capable generals but this looked to be an opportunity. The commander would not be surprised to learn that in the following days each other fleet commander received a similar message.

[Lazerus]

*Raises a glass to another smax GO noob making a ripple*