Hangman Discussion Thread

[joncha]

I'm leaning more towards 2 (minus the spoiler ), but I'll continue posting zips for however long the good doctor does.

[DrSpike]

There is no spoiler. Don't even bother to look for one.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by joncha
I'll continue posting zips for however long the good doctor does.

I will abide by the consensus (thus abiding you too it seems).

I voted 1) before. I'm not certain now. I'm still leaning a bit towards 1) as it removes the possibility for personal attacks. However, the vast majority of posters wont engage in these anyway.

I'll give it some more thought before voting.

[PLATO]

Eithier place is fine with me. Post Count has never been my motivation for being at Apolyton. Both places have their upsides and downsides. If I had to choose, I would say to leave it here and have rah smack down abusers. But, It might add a lot of new players in OT.

An interesting choice for you rah. Wherever it is, I will stop by to have a letter or a word every now and then. It is a fun game.

[DrSpike]

Did you read the whole thread?

[Rasputin]

reading whole threads prevents spamming !!!

so dont do it ...

[snoopy369]

I don't intend to post zips.

[Nikolai]

Me neither, if I ever were to get a word.

[Sparrowhawk]

Recent discussion of editing posts, I will save the participants from having to repost their remarks:

The following is the results of a post being edited after being posted when the post immediately above it was of the same word (cross post).

Originally posted by joncha
I saw that edit.

Originally posted by Sparrowhawk
?if he guessed guild and saw you guessed it already, what is wrong with editing??

(I know editting a guess is against the rules, but if he didn't edit and it was guild that he guessed he could guess again but it would create another post). If he guessed something like child on the other hand, maybe that's something else entirely.

* Sparrowhawk

Originally posted by snoopy369
Editing is never allowed. The correct way to do it is to post again. Build would have been invalid.

Originally posted by joncha
His original guess was guild, which means he could have just posted his new guess. He will probably argue that it wasn't a valid guess, so he could freely edit it. It's poor form, though.

Originally posted by snoopy369
Editing is *invalid*, period. Not just poor form. Allowing any edit at all opens up a whole can of worms which we should not get into.

Originally posted by Jaguar

I was online at the time. Supposing I had posted "build" at the same time that he had edited to "build". There is no possible way of judging who got the guess in first.

Originally posted by joncha
* joncha points again to the discussion thread. :cute;

Originally posted by DrSpike
I don't think there is anything wrong with an immediate edit on a crosspost. It is posts that show as edited that are clearly against the rules.

Perhaps if that is not what the group feels a note concerning this could be added to the rules following a vote. That would be better than throwing accusations of 'poor form' around when as Sparrow suggests, it isn't entirely clear at all.

Originally posted by DrSpike


You posted your 'poor form' remark here. I'll respond here, thanks.

Originally posted by snoopy369
Edits have always been wrong. What's the difference between an edit that shows and not, other than five minutes? It doesn't make it any less wrong.

Originally posted by DrSpike
Well the difference is crossposts 5 minutes apart don't happen.

Maybe people will see it your way. Removing myself, Joncha and Jaguar for obvious reasons, we have 1 who does (you) and Sparrow, whose immediate reaction was that the immediate edit was fine in the circumstances.

Worth a vote I'd say, before casting aspersions. This is particularly true at a time when the game could still easily get shut down or moved.

And this is where we are at now (unless someone else posted in teh 30 seconds it took for this message to appear in "the Hangman Discussion Thread"

/me

[Jaguar]

There is a very specific reason why edits cannot be allowed.

Person 1 guesses E at 1:05
Person 2 guesses E at 1:05 as well. His post is later in the thread, so we know whose guess is valid. Then he edits to guess A at 1:06.
Person 3 also guesses A at 1:06.

In the case of 2 and 3, we don't know whose guess was the first, and therefore, valid one.

[joncha]

As I posted, it is possible to argue that his edit did not break the rules. I believe it was against the spirit of the rules, however.

I suggest we change the rule from

5. Guesses cannot be changed after being posted.

to something along the lines of

5. Posts cannot be changed after being posted. Editing a post in hangman will result in the invalidity of any guess(es) made in the post and the elimination of the player for the word in play.

[Sparrowhawk]

I will preface this by saying that I have edited my posts with guesses before (hopefully this doesn't invalidate my 13 words and my 10th place standing ). Generally when I have edited it is because i have typed something like [b ]B/b] and gone back to edit the syntax. I don't see a problem with that.

The only point I will make is that this game gets accused of being a +1 generator and by forcing people to create a new post when an edit does just as good is not a good thing in my opinion as it results in more needless posts.

Snoopy makes the point that allowing anyone to edit "opens a can of worms" which may be true, but is not something I worry about. I am more concerned with someone posting a guess, realizing that they could have made a better guess and going back and editing. This can happen now and we never would know if it is done in less then 5 minutes, if in more then 5 minutes we know and the guess is invalid. I like this the way it is, it doesn't allow someone to guess a "placeholder" and go back and edit it with the best possible choice later.

Jaguar uses an example where person A guesses and posts and edits at the same time as person B guesses he same thing, and that there is no way of knowing who was first, unavoidable and in this case I would give the guess to person A as it appears first in the thread.

If we agree to modify the rules as Joncha suggests, at a minimum it should read:

5. Posts containing a guess cannot be changed after being posted. Editing a guess in hangman will result in the invalidity of any guess(es) made in the post and the elimination of the player for the word in play.

(to allow people to at least edit their posts that do not contain guesses, your wording implies that we cannot edit any post in hangman, period). I also took out the (es) in that you cannot make a post with multiple guesses .

/me

[joncha]

That misses the point entirely. If you are quick enough you can get away with editing out a guess under your change (oh, I just changed the syntax *wink-wink*). If we make ALL edits illegal, there is no possible way to get around it. If that means the occassional screwed up smiley or tag, too bad.

Also, the multiple guesses is intentional, as both the original and the edited guess should be invalid.

[snoopy369]

The current syntax is fine. Guesses cannot be changed after being posted. That's clear enough for anyone who's not trying to nitpick, and any more clear rule you post is going to cause other sorts of problems.

I say we just stop nitpicking at the rules and start playing the game. Or else ask rah to shut down the game. It seems to me like this game has become 'ooh, how can i screw around with the rules' rather than 'guessing letters in words', and that's just not fun for me. If it's fun for you, then go start a game called 'rules'.

[DrSpike]

My response to Snoopy from the other thread:

I do think though that if that is your take it should be explicit in the rules. Both myself and Sparrow's immediate reaction was immediate edits because of a crosspost are fine. Clearly they are different from an later edit after you have seen future guesses/information. If you think the rule should apply to both, fair enough. But I don't think it's unreasonable to raise the question.

And to your new one, I didn't think 'ah, maybe I'll edit this post and argue it's not against the rules', I genuinely thought (and still think) it's fine in those circumstances. Rules are there to stop such ambiguity, and are therefore good things.