Neverwinter Nights - Capitalist Utopia

[Harovan]

I was just playing through a certain epic battle at the end of HotU chapter 2; for the first time with a caster (level 25 mage). Wow. I can only say wow. I had no idea about the devastating effect of Weird DC 33 on a wave of charging Drow or Duergar meleers. That battle was not epic at all this time. It was cheese.

[DrSpike]

One of the reasons why sorcs are as ueber as you can get in NWN. The saves on weird and wotb are just insane.

[Harovan]

I used WOTB on other occasions too. It works great, against casters mainly, as it is a fortitude save. It does not look as impressive as weird, though, since you're hardly ever swarmed by casters and hence, kill only a few mobs with it. But if you're surrounded and pummeled by about 10-15 angry Duergars and have all of them (maybe except one or two) fall in radial directions with one single spell, the look is breathtaking.

[duke o' york]

I fought some cultists in the Badlands and got massacred by the first three.
They've got see invisibility for god's sake! That's not fair!

[Unspeakable Horror]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I used WOTB on other occasions too. It works great, against casters mainly, as it is a fortitude save. It does not look as impressive as weird, though, since you're hardly ever swarmed by casters and hence, kill only a few mobs with it. But if you're surrounded and pummeled by about 10-15 angry Duergars and have all of them (maybe except one or two) fall in radial directions with one single spell, the look is breathtaking.

I played a module some time ago where something went terribly wrong and instead of spawning a few undead, there were 40 - 50 zombies, skeletons and other stuff moving around, luckily I had 1 Undead to Death left which of course I used, the result was amazing

[DaShi]

Originally posted by duke o' york
Folderol has now updated to 1.67.
So we can now play with flashy new things.

What about the CEP? I heard there were conflicts.

[duke o' york]

CEP has been sorted out too, but they're working on 2.0 at the moment, so I don't think it will have been a particularly thorough job.
Apart from the cultists killing me, I haven't had any problems with Folderol and the new patch.

[Tuberski]

I can't find Folderol anywhere!!!!



ACK!

[Tuberski]

Heh.

Right after posting that, I started NWN again and found Folderol right away.

ACK!

[DrSpike]

In a complete aside GW is up all of the time.

[Harovan]

Spikey, you asked me to keep you up to date regarding Vanguard, at least as much as I am allowed to say.

Here's an interesting bit of information. It appears, that a couple of days ago Sigil (VG developers) bought the publishing rights back from Microsoft and decided to be their own publishers. Rumors have it, that Microsoft attempted to drag Vanguard more in the direction of cheapo mass market games (like WOW, EQ2, GW and alike), which is what I feared in the first place.

This might be great news, had they not just changed one devil with another: Since Sigil is now its own publisher, but does have neither experience nor the infrastructure to manage a MMORPG, they have made an agreement with - gulp! - Sony Online Entertainment:

“As the development process is ongoing and constantly shifting, it became clear that MGS and Sigil had varying visions and direction for the title’s development,” said Brad McQuaid, CEO of Sigil Games Online. “In the best interest of Vanguard, it was decided that we would buy back the publishing rights from Microsoft.”

As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOE’s Station Access™ subscription plan. Station Access allows players to enjoy all of SOE’s MMO titles for one low monthly price.

“We are very excited to be working with so many old friends at Sigil,” said John Smedley, president, Sony Online Entertainment. “Vanguard looks beautiful and has an incredibly rich game world. It’s the type of game that will appeal directly to SOE’s hundreds of thousands of players and should fit in perfectly with the current line-up of games available in Station Access.”

”This decision was made mutually by Sigil and Microsoft, in the best interest of the long-term goals for the title,” said Phil Spencer, General Manager at Microsoft Game Studios. “As a key Windows development partner, we will continue to work with Sigil to ensure Vanguard’s ongoing success.”

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is the next generation of massively multiplayer online games. The journey takes place in the fantasy setting of Telon, a vast and ancient world of magic, intrigue and adventure. Facing the challenges of a war torn world, the diverse people here struggle to rebuild their once great civilizations. A fragile alliance has been struck, with the lands set upon by invading forces, the races must band together to survive.

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is currently in a closed beta phase. The game will remain available via Fileplanet for existing beta testers during the transition to SOE. New information will be sent out to testers as the changeover occurs.

For more information about Vanguard: Saga of Heroes please visit www.vanguardsoh.com.

You probably know, that a lot of their supposed fanbase (including me) just plain and simple HATES SOE. Hence, the outcry in the forums was immense. The worst fear was, that SOE manages to get control over the gameplay (which is NOT part of the agreement). In one of the many threads in the VG forums, Brad McQuaid once again clarified:

Re: Don't let SoE touch the gameplay!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SoE cannot touch the gameplay.

What we have done is become the publishers of our own game. We now have even more control and authority over Vanguard, how it is made, how it is designed, and how it is marketed than we ever had with Microsoft.

I realize there are lots of different feelings about SOE and their games. But whatever those feelings, the fact of the matter is that they know operations and distribution. They will make sure our beta runs the way it needs to, that our game is widely marketed, and that our game is available all over, in all channels.

That is SOE's role in this new partnership with them. Sigil remains Sigil, able to focus now moreso on what we do best -- design, implement, conduct betas, build community, and market.
__________________
Brad McQuaid
CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

I have of course mixed feelings. EQ1 (the original and the 1st expansion "Ruins of Kunark") was a great game as long as it was in the hands of Verant (Brads old company), but then SOE merged with Verant (a nice name for it, right? ), took over the EQ development, flooded the market with dull expansion packs and completely screwed up what once was a great game. I can only hope, that Brad does not let them fool him once more.

[DrSpike]

I'll certainly still keep an eye on it - thanks.

In the meantime I have my cheapo WoW and GW to play.

[Harovan]

Hey, no offense was intended. I played cheapo EQ2 and GW too end enjoyed both while it lasted.

Here's another Brad bit. That guy is awesome.

Sigil retains their Vision on what Vanguard will be.
SOE is helping to distribute and market the title.

These are the key points:

1. We found an incredible opportunity: the opportunity to purchase the publishing rights from Microsoft and become our own publisher.

2. We now own both the IP (the intellectual property) of Vanguard and the publishing rights.

3. This gives us more control and autonomy than we have ever had before. We are no longer just a developer.

4. Microsoft was TOTALLY cool with this. They are still very happy about Vanguard and looking forward to it bolstering their Windows platform. Vanguard will be an XP game, but also a Vista game, offering both 32 bit and 64 bit clients. We will continue to work closely with them and with Vista's focus on entertainment/games/graphics, as well as online, Vanguard is key.

5. SOE was TOTALLY cool with this. They are excited to have the people who designed and worked on the original EQ and EQ expansions provide a game for them. They need a game like Vanguard next year -- it gives them a variety of games from which players can choose from, or players can just play Vanguard.

6. We continue to have total control over the game's design, how it is marketed, the community, customer service -- everything that is important to us and I think important to all of you.

7. Things like running game servers, getting ads (that we design and/or approve) into magazines, getting boxes into stores, etc., all of which SOE is great at doing, they can do while we focus on finishing up the game and on beta.

8. This also gives us more time to launch the game when it is truly ready.

9. edit: Also, Vanguard will *NOT* be part of SOE's 'buy and sell items for real world money'. Our hard line position against this for a game like Vanguard remains as strong as ever.

If there are any other concerns or questions about this -- that's what I'm here for. I know this is a big change and it takes a moment to wrap one's head around it, but bottom line is that it's the best thing for Vanguard, for Sigil, and for you, our future players.
__________________
Brad McQuaid
CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

It's especially the 8th and 9th points, what makes me smile.

[DrSpike]

Hehe none was taken.

I am certainly interested to see what they can come up with. Also, if it is as hardcore as they claim I'll be interested to see what size of playerbase they can maintain.

The genre has some clear evolving to do. I think there are some questions about evolving it back (regressing?) towards a slow levelling game like (or even slower than) EQ though. Ultimately EQ became all about the raiding endgame, like WoW, which you dislike.

The good thing about a raiding *endgame* is that you can focus a lot of resources on making dungeons that a substantial proportion of your playerbase can enjoy (and it's more substantial the faster people can reach the cap). Presumably, part of making slow levelling work is group dungeons to play in at all levels, and get equipment. However, that could spread resources a little thin, leaving the grindy part of the game - there will be one I'm sure

So I am not as fanatical as some about their ideas, but willing to be convinced.

I am waiting for someone to bite the bullet from the other end, and make a game with a level cap even faster to reach than WoW (say around WoW level 40) and explicitly make the game about the raiding endgame. Like Vanguard this wont appeal to all (which makes it risky), but I would love it.

It strikes me as ironic that we both want similar things - a serious group based MMO. However, we have completely different ideas about how best to attain that.

Oddly, no one has come up with my idea yet. Maybe I should write to Brad.

[Harovan]

Well, the VG playerbase will be small. It certainly won't be a competition even to EQ2, let alone WoW. But then, VG does not need to have a large player base, as Sigil now owns both intellectual property and publishing rights, and is a small company of only about 100 employees (SOE is getting only small royalties, as is clarified in the VG forums). VG will be a niche game for MMORPG masochists. Sigil knows that and it is intended.

There are different games for a different audience. There are games more for casual players. Such are the games I mentioned as "cheapo". Change that word with "easy", if you don't like it. And these games are easy, you can build a powerful character with little effort and in little time. And then there are "hardcore" games, which assemble players, who want to earn their rewards the hard way. Note, that you can play and enjoy a "cheapo" game as hardcore player as well - you just will develop several characters, as long as you can manage to bear the repetition without quitting. You are yourself an example for the latter type of player, at least as much as I know you.

You mentioned EQ and WOW as games for endgame raiders, and you are right. After the changes over the past year you can add EQ2 to this suite too. In these games a dedicated player can level so fast, that this endgame will be reached in a few mere weeks. The game itself is disrated to some kind of tutorial and all what matters are perhaps the last 5 levels, because during those you assemble your starting equipment for raiding. I have experienced it myself in my second (PvP) run in EQ2. I did not bother about good equipment, because levels flew by so fast, that nothing was bound to last long.

Vanguard aims to be a good challenge and entertainment (including raids) at all levels. You will level slowly, but at all levels you will have the full fledged content, including raids. And you will have time to enjoy the spoils of it without outleveling it in a week . EQ2 started well in the first six months. I started raiding at about level 15, and it had nice quests, group dungeons and raid encounters throughout all levels, along with a small leveling speed. I put high expectations in this game, but unfortunately it got WoWified. Note that this is not meant in a degrading way - it just not the game I hoped it to be.

SOE has a nice sortiment now in their Station Pass - they have EQ2 as casual game, Star Wars Galaxies and Planetside for friends of futuristic stuff. And they have original EQ for the hardcore - even though it's been SOEified, it still maintains some of the "hardcore" touch (corpse runs, possible level losses and all that). And since EQ1 is growing old, VG fits well as its successor from next year on. It does not matter, that they're not developing it and have little say even in publishing... they have it in their sortiment. Blizzard and ArenaNet have only games for casual players.