DESIGN: CtP2 Source Code released - our actions [brainstorm & discussion]

[Solver]

Yet again, we want to create an "official baseline version". And BTW, PBEM is among the most serious bugs.

Now, say, we put in some code that allows to create the space layer in the source. We merely add the code - some SLIC functions, if need be, a button for toggling between space/Earth, like CtP1, that's it. Now, all of that gets worked via SLIC... it's an idea of every modder whether space should be in, it's easily enabled and disabled via SLIC.

We will, though, I assume, want to also have some mod for the "official baseline version", and then we can debate whether space should be in it, etc.

[The Big Mc]

the problem could be that many ideas and functions are related to what is in the exe

[Ekmek]

If stuff is SLC'd then effort should be made to keep stuff as mod specific as pssible. Like the worker slc or city expansion slc. If they remain pure, not having other slc functions then possibly we can make it at a start up screen where you pick which slc mods you want in the game. This might mean a space mod or a cradle mod's slc would have to be broken into components so a player can pick and choose this will allow a lot of customability although it may affect scenarios.

[The Big Mc]

you have a point

[ahenobarb]

Originally posted by The Big Mc
well that’s ok as long as we all decide on one slic model we could have moded games with ½ the add slic comments in it. we need to decide on a slandered slic enhancement code that we all agree on and use that way a moder can tell when the code was enhanced with a mark on the file saying

I think this is very important. The order of changes should be:

1) lift the finite limitations on the number of items you can add to the game, so the mod community can flourish (in doing this the coders will get to look at the code and learn a lot about how it is set up)

2) fix the real bugs in the game (worry about PBEM, and AI city management stuff later)

3) Improve SLIC -- fix broken functions, add new functions, etc.

Then when all of this has been done, we should consider whether the changes being proposed could be done with an improved SLIC language rather than a source code change. Changing the source code should be a last resort.

It is better to fix and improve SLIC and use it to make the majority of the additions we want because it will cause less inadvertant bugs and crashes and it is much easier for someone to cherry pick the additions they want to their own game and slip SLIC in and out than it is to have to make source code changes to incorporate someone's new feature into the game and recompile.

Imagine if there is a cradle like version of CTP2 (which cradle written into the source code) and someone has a space themed CTP2 in the later ages (written into a different source code) and you want both. It would takes days/weeks for you to put the code together on your own to get a hybrid of the two games. It is far better if these things were SLIC scripts that could be slipped in and out.

[Solver]

Yes, a built-in Modswapperism has already been proposed, J's thread, I believe.

[Ekmek]

If everyone is going the route of using the source code to fix bugs and opening up more mod opportunities perhaps having Modswapper (or similar option) as part of the actual game set up should be pursued. This way all the changes that are to arise can be incorporated depending on the person playing the game instead of wickering a lot of code together.

But perhaps some of the other stuff done with SLC and modding like goods mod, city expansion, etc should be incorporated into a new Apolyton patch but it could probably be left as a mod and not coded.

[The Big Mc]

well that’s ok as long as we all decide on one slic model we could have moded games with ½ the add slic comments in it. we need to decide on a slandered slic enhancement code that we all agree on and use that way a moder can tell when the code was enhanced with a mark on the file saying

stranded slic (date)

so people can know what they are getting.

[Solver]

We will... SLIC enhancements will allow people to create mods with newver and bigger stuff.

[The Big Mc]

yes my point is we are all getting carried a way with possible new and complicated mod using the source code but we should also help the people on the forum who can't use c

[Solver]

On my wishlist would be a "special attack chance" flag. E.g., I want an Infector, that has a 25% chance of infecting a city, and an UberKrux unit that has a 75% of doing so.

[The Big Mc]

I thick to start with we should add on some slic functions for less confident programmers for example a add slave command

Also adding city buildings that have a tile improvement attached like the city wall so people don’t have to go throw the source code this would open the bottom end of ctp to the part time moder who does not know c or slic.

Then we can add flags to other files like a flag in units that say can be enslaved so the enslaver is not forced to seek out settlers it can enslave special units like the slaver. As well as small wonders which any nation can build.

[Solver]

Excellent said Locutus, although that really does sound far-fetched. I wonder what SLIC enhancements would we need to create to make a similar trade model implementable through SLIC.

As for the current trade model, we can beef up the formula that determines profit from trade, and add a benefit... have it go to commerce, not gold, maybe, or have the total trade income broken proportionally into gold and science by using the civ-wide science setting.

[Locutus]

As for Trade, I would personally (eventually -- this is long-term thinking) like to completely revise the trade system. In real history, trade is of the utmost importance for all civilizations. Up until recently, historians used to think that civilizations were built on war (which at least partially explains why war has always been such a major ingredient in Civ games), but new research has proven this to be false: civilizations are built on trade. The very first civilizations that ever existed (Sumer, Minoans, Harappa, Shang, Caral, etc) came into existance because they developed increasingly complex ways of organizing society to cope with increasingly large and complex trade networks. In more recent times, colonial empires accumulated an unprecedented amount of wealth and power thanks to trade networks of unprecented scale. And today the US is a world power largely owing to the many American companies selling American products all over the world.

I'd like a trade system somewhat similar to Civ3, but more advanced: like Civ3, you need certain goods in your recourse box before you can build certain units. To get these resources, you must have them in your radius, or you must be connected to a network. But contrary to Civ3, IMO this shouldn't be a road network but rather a trade network. If you have a city with iron and a city with gold, you can only take advantage of the iron in city 2 by creating an iron trade route with city 1. The same with the gold: city 1 needs a gold route with city 2 to be able to take advantage of the gold. Both building and mainaining trade goods should come at a cost, which similarly to PW should be subtracted directly from the national income (not sure yet which resource(s) should be used for this). So no more building of Caravans.

Aside from that, I agree with MrBaggins that foreign trade should be much more valuable than national trade and that trade should contribute to science as well.

Of course, this system of mine would be a huge change with major implications on other parts of the game (the AI, for one thing). It would be a huge undertaking to implement and I'm sure not everyone will like it, so it shouldn't be part of a "official baseline version", to use Solver's terminology.

[Solver]

Well, when there are many programmers, of course, they do it that way, some work at GUI, some at AI, some at MP, and whatnot.

However, with our (very) limited man resources, I believe that every programmer on the team will end up changing code from every area.