DESIGN: CtP2 Source Code released - our actions [brainstorm & discussion]

[Solver]

Everyone go to the off-topic thread, we are having a good chance of getting it next week!

[Solver]

And for some players who claim to like it, add an in-game notepad.

"Nuke the russkies. Complete the Empire State. Lunch with Napoleon".

[Pedrunn]

Make a feature where the player can write strings on tiles (by clicking the right button for instance).

This way we can add a naming regions feature

"dark forest", "Grand Canyon", "Amazonia River", "Everest Mountain", "Iguacu Fall", etc...

[finfahey]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
SMAC unit workshop... nice idea in practice. In reality, the AI gets royally screwed.

Agreed (though the defaults could be made reasonable, which they are mostly in SMAC, except the AI doesn't know zip about clean reactors). Forgot my smiley. In any case, involves a complete rethink as to how units work - it's a real big change. It's silly if it isn't in a future context like SMAC, I know.

But while I'm wasting time - just looking at ships:

Power source: paddle, oars, 1-mast, 2-mast [...], steam paddle wheel, steam prop...

Hull: Rushes, wooden (various sorts, e.g. copper-bottomed), iron, steel...

Armament: None, ram, greek fire, 1-deck solid-shot guns [...], ship-to-ship missiles...

Not to mention carrying capacity - and the artwork/GUI problems are horrific.

The problem is, I can just imagine the absurd combinations you could get out of that - for example a stern-wheeler river boat with ship-to-ship missiles (mind you, Phil Farmer had that in the Riverworld series of novels - hmmm, might be fun at that)

[MrBaggins]

SMAC unit workshop... nice idea in practice. In reality, the AI gets royally screwed.

[finfahey]

I get that the general vibe of things is to:

1) Fix bugs.
2) Get the SLIC coding that doesn't work working (really an extension of 1)
3) Add new SLIC features to make modding more powerful.
4) Then, and only then, consider what can be added to the core game engine (because by then one knows that it can't be done with SLIC - and programmers will have acquired more confidence through familiarity with the code)

Perhaps there should be an ongoing list of things that can only conceivably be type 4 features. One already mentioned is the restoration of the space layer.

I don't think anyone's mentioned the idea of units from different players (provided they are allies) occupying the same square - as in SMAC. This would help with that annoying tendency that allies have of getting in the way - and it's quite an incentive to having allies, since you acquire overseas bases and a greater range of action.

Of course, this would only work if the limit on units per square was lifted (which has been mentioned), again as in SMAC. This needs a user interface change, of course - you need a scrolling list not a set of 12 boxes.

Heh - any thoughts on the SMAC unit workshop?

[Solver]

Victory party or not... we can get drunk when we get the code .

[The Big Mc]

how do you thick I feel i start everybody off with this latest push lose my connection for 15 days and miss the victory party

[Turambar]

Whoa! I disappear for a few months and this happens! Brilliant news!

Unfortunetly I'm a Java rather than C++ programmer, though I may get round to learning it one day.

Just one note of caution that comes to mind, when changing the source code we've got to be careful not to make more bugs than we fix!

[Solver]

No matter what you do, interpreted scripts will always be much slower.

[J Bytheway]

There's also the possibility of improving how SLIC works, so that SLICed stuff becomes faster, although this is likely to be tough at best.

Someone was worried about differing versions of SLIC. I was presuming that we would be using a version directive of some sort to distinguish enhanced SLIC from old stuff if necessary (It gets pretty hard to maintain backwards compatibilit any other way, especially since one of the things that needs to be changed is how SLIC handles simple arithmetic).

[Solver]

Yes, increasing SLIC power is on our list pretty high... but bear in mind that code directly implemented executes much faster. I propose that things such as options at city capture are put directly in the source.

[ahenobarb]

Originally posted by Solver
Yet again, we want to create an "official baseline version". And BTW, PBEM is among the most serious bugs.

Now, say, we put in some code that allows to create the space layer in the source. We merely add the code - some SLIC functions, if need be, a button for toggling between space/Earth, like CtP1, that's it. Now, all of that gets worked via SLIC... it's an idea of every modder whether space should be in, it's easily enabled and disabled via SLIC.

We will, though, I assume, want to also have some mod for the "official baseline version", and then we can debate whether space should be in it, etc.

Precisely, there are things for which source code changes will be the only way to implement things. However, source code changes should be reserved for only those things that can only be this way, not for things that could be done with SLIC. A lot of trouble could be saved by increasing the power of SLIC. Perhaps someone could start a thread on SLIC changes? I'm out until next week.

Also as an aside, if/when we get into tinkering with the AI, it might be a good idea to take the original .cpp files and break them into several sub files. This way you could have several people working on different aspects of the AI at the same time and making changes without interfereing with each others work. Of course, we haven't actually seen the source yet so it is hard to know if this is possible.

[Solver]

To make the space in CtP2, you would at least have to add a button on GUI nonetheless, that could then be enabled by a wonder. Also, all those considerations of how special space cities are, moving in space (cargo pods), etc.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Solver
Now, say, we put in some code that allows to create the space layer in the source. We merely add the code - some SLIC functions, if need be, a button for toggling between space/Earth, like CtP1, that's it. Now, all of that gets worked via SLIC... it's an idea of every modder whether space should be in, it's easily enabled and disabled via SLIC.

Actual the space layer should be eneabled via text files than via slic. IIRC in CTP1 the space button was enabled by the space ladder wonder. So if you remove this wonder in CTP1 no space button in the game. Well you can put a lot into the source code, but it should finally depend on what the modders use what you find in a mod.

Also porting some stuff from slic to c++ source code will make the game faster, and the implementaion easier. For instance, I don't need then to use this workaround with the good tile improvements. My computer needs on an ultra gigantic map half a minute to improve the map, the AI wouldn't consider the good tiles as improved, so that it would build an tile improvement on the good. I wouldn't have the problem that the Barbarians already know some civs. So I also like to have an additional flag pillagable for the goods and the restoration time in the goods.txt beside the gold, pruduction and food flag that gives additional food, production and gold to the terrain, I like also flags like TradeGold, TradeProduction and TradeFood, for stuff that the reciever city should get.

And I like to have the feature back that hided the deep sea in CTP1.

-Martin