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Making Cradle 3+ fully compatible with the Apolyton Edition

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  • Reviewing the Artillery:

    The addition of the new Bombard unit (see Post# 372) requires that it be statted such that it "fits in" with the existing artillery-type units. In game terms, that means land units with the Bombardment attribute, which separates them from the Ranged infantry types such as Slinger & Archer. There were 7 such units in Cradle 5.0, ranging from Ballista to War Walker, and for the most part the existing costs and stats look fine. The only "headscratcher" was the Trebuchet having the same shield cost as the Cannon (both at 1200). That's OK, because we need to fit the Bombard in between the Trebuchet and Cannon, so that was going to change anyway.

    As you can see in the attachment (top section are Cradle 5.0 stats, bottom is 5.1), most of the artillery numbers remain the same, but there are some adjustments:
    * The cost of building the Onager and Trebuchet has been reduced, and that's largely a reflection of the primitive materials needed in the construction of each. The Trebuchet can cause more damage, but the extra cost is marginal because the tactics, materials, and ammunition are similar for both.
    * By contrast, the Bombard uses entirely new technology (gunpowder and metal casting) so the cost is greater but the technology & tactics are new so the damage levels are only incrementally greater than those inflicted by its torsion-based predecessors.
    * Finally the Cannon also costs more, which simply reflects the big foundries and the additional metal required to produce the large bronze cannons of this era.

    Not directly related, but with the reduction in Onager/Trebuchet costs, we'll need to lower the build costs for the Composite Archer (from 650 to 600) & Crossbowman (from 800 to 700) as well. Otherwise, they are too expensive in comparison to comparable Bombardment-type units.

    Click image for larger version

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    To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

    From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

    Comment


    • "IncreaseScientists":

      As described in Post# 266, Wonders with this bonus "add additional Science per Specialist", which is a very weak benefit, especially if it is the ONLY benefit. Of the 7 Wonders which provide this, the Great Library, Galileo's Telescope and Manhattan Project offer no additional benefit. Whereas most of the rest also increase "National Science" by anywhere from 5 to 10 percent. Accordingly, I'm going to add an "IncKnowledgePercent" line of 2% to each of these wonders, so there's at least a small overall Science benefit. Otherwise they are scarcely worth building.
      - Files changed: Wonder.txt & Great_Library.txt​
      To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

      From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

      Comment


      • Tech Tree Codes:

        I'll begin by noting that neither of the "as-delivered" CtP1 or CtP2 Tech Trees used "codes" to identify the benefit category of individual wonders, buildings and TIMPS so it's a Cradle feature we're dealing with here. Some of the Codes are obvious and won't be changed: "F" = Food, "H" = Happiness, "P" = Production and "S" = Science are obvious and OK as-is. The problem is that the rest are duplicative, misleading or non-existent, so for those there's been a major revision.

        "C" = Crime (was E for Ethics): The use of "E" is simply too tenuous, especially since structures which affect "Crime" are designated as such - and only as such - in all game documentation.

        "D" = Diplomacy: There was no category for buildings or wonders with this benefit, but clearly many of them have diplomatic effects: CloseEmbassies, EmbassiesEverywhere, EmbassiesEverywhereEvenAtWar, FreeSlaves, IncreaseRegard, etc

        "G" = Gold (was both C for Commerce and G for Gold): The manual talks about "Gold" in several ways, but the easiest way to visualize it is that "Commerce Gold" is the total empire income which is used every turn to pay wages and generate science, while "Treasury Gold" is the amount which is left over and accumulates in the Treasury. This is shown graphically in the "Domestic Policy" tab of the "Empire Manager" screen. The latter category is the sum visible in the "Total Gold" window at the top of the game screen, and is used to accelerate production, upgrade units or assist diplomacy. Although each category is a different thing, both ultimately increase "Treasury Gold" and accordingly will use the same code letter.

        "M" = Military (was D for Defense): Although many of these Wonders provide defensive benefits (hence the original "D" code), there are benefits to offensive capability as well. Even something like "lowerpeacemovement" applies since it affects Happiness based on the total number of military units. Likewise, "protectfrombioagents" and limiting "nanovirus" effects are clearly military related.

        "^" = City Level Increase (was G for Growth): Cities cannot exceed designated population levels (see Post# 5) until a building is constructed (such as the Apothecary which raises the maximum from 12 to 20). Rather than using a letter to designate these structures, the code is now an "up arrow" symbol.

        Lastly, all codes have been added to the Tech Tree "Legend" (see attached).
        - File changed: v5.1 Tech Tree

        Click image for larger version  Name:	New Tech Tree Legend.png Views:	2 Size:	64.8 KB ID:	9486861
        To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

        From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

        Comment


        • Unit Card Shadows:

          The first Cradle 5 release had quite a few new units, but at the time I hadn't learned how to add "shadowing" to the unit cards. All the original Cradle and CtP2 units had this, and it's a much better look, almost 3D. There were 22 unit cards which did not have the effect, so all have been reconstructed and it's now universal in v5.1 (see attached example).

          Click image for larger version

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          To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

          From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

          Comment


          • Chariots vs. Javelin Cavalry:

            Here are two indisputable "game facts" in Cradle:
            1) Chariots are rarely built
            2) Javelin Cavalry are the pre-eminent mobile units of the early Ancient Era in Cradle

            But historically the reverse was true. The Bronze Age is also known as the "Chariot Age" because they dominated the battlefields of this era. The problem is this pair of units have two primary aspects which should be complements, not monopolized by one, specifically Movement & Vision. Seen in this light, the solution seems obvious:
            * Chariots will boost movement from 2-3 while retaining all other stats, in particular the one-tile vision. Now Chariots - with greater range and better attack - have regained their proper historical role.
            * Javelin Cavalry will experience a corresponding decrease in move (from 3 to 2), but will retain the two-tile vision, thus emphasizing their true role as scouts. In addition, the upgrade from Javelin Cavalry to Horseman is now very desirable since that changes Move from 2-3, whereas before there was only a moderate improvement to Attack.

            Accordingly, the player now faces a real choice when it comes to choosing which unit to build: Better Movement or Better Vision?

            - File changed: Units.txt​
            To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

            From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

            Comment


            • Too Many Civilians City Battle CTD (con):

              As described in Post# 365, the game CTDs when there are too many civilians on the "back row" during a city attack battle. In my Rome campaign, this occurred when Rome attacked a Shang city with 3 infantry and a ranged unit and the AI civ had 9 units including 5 Slavers. As a test, I used the cheat screen to delete one of the Slavers, after which the battle proceeded normally, seemingly indicating that "5" is the magic number. But the next test used 5 infantry & 2 Ranged units and the added length of the attacking frontline moved 2 of the Slavers off the back row and there was no CTD. Accordingly, when faced with this CTD (or running a test), make sure to account for the "length of the front row", as that clearly has an effect.
              To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

              From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

              Comment


              • "Embassy Everywhere even-at-war" Attribute:

                This feature provides a HUGE advantage to whoever has the Wonder which grants it. Not only do you always know what every civ is doing, there's no diplomatic incentive to end wars since normally Peace is required in order to gain Embassy-based insight into the workings of foreign civs. Let's look at the existing situation and the planned alternative:

                Cyrus Cylinder: This is the first Wonder to provide this benefit (the only other is the L24 World Peace Center). It becomes available with L5 Philosophy, but that's problematic for several reasons:
                * It immediately identifies every civilization in the game, usually while many are still undiscovered.
                * Even the most expansive definition of a period for this Wonder (i.e. from Cyrus' reign to Alexander's conquest of the Persian Empire) only runs from 600 to 330 BC, whereas the in-game benefits do not expire until the Age of Reason, which historically began around 1680 AD.
                * Furthermore, historically the Cyrus Cylinder had nothing to do with diplomacy, but rather involved the repatriation of conquered peoples. This was an admirable repudiation and reversal of the Assyrian & Babylonian Empires' post-conquest policy of relocating the populations of entire regions in order to reduce the likelihood of revolt. Accordingly, a more realistic benefit would be a combination of increased Happiness and improved Diplomatic Regard.
                * The starting Advance is fine (the historical period is correct) but the expiration should not extend much beyond the Classical Era. Normally I'd look to end it with L9 Dark Ages, but that already cancels three other Wonders. Accordingly we'll move it to L10 Feudalism.

                Pax Romana: This Wonder will gain the "Embassy Everywhere even-at-war" attribute, a change which offers several benefits and only one downside:
                * Currently, Pax Romana does almost nothing except launch the "Empire Victory". Since EVERY player gets to attempt the Empire Victory once this Wonder is finished, there's no real incentive to be the one who builds it.
                * Although the Wonder cannot expire (the only downside) and the historical period known as the "Pax Romana" ended around 200 AD, there's another way to look at it. Seen more as a representation of the Roman Empire in it's totality, along with successors such as the Byzantine Empire and the Holy Roman Empire, the true "life" of this Wonder can tenuously be extended into the early Modern Age (as personified by the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the last remnant of the almost equally multi-ethnic Holy Roman Empire).
                * From the historical perspective, there's no period until the late Middle Ages (i.e. the Age of Discovery) when it was even possible to conceive of a diplomatic presence in every nation on Earth, so technically speaking this particular benefit should not be available until then. However, in this case we can ignore that "reality" since in the context of CtP2 as a game, the diplomatic and trade systems are clearly designed to link all civilizations together from the very earliest of times.

                In addition, the assignment of the "Embassy Everywhere" attribute to four of the religious "Book Wonders" will be scaled back to just two, Christianity and Islam. The reason is that unlike the others, these religions were heavily focused on proselytizing from the beginning (thus quickly gaining adherents worldwide) plus they appear in-game at roughly the same time as Pax Romana, so we don't have to deal with the "too early" appearance of automatic embassies in all civs.

                - Files changed: Wonder.txt & Great_Library.txt​
                Last edited by Kull; November 24, 2025, 22:13.
                To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

                From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

                Comment

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