CTP PBEM Challenge Ladder -- Feb 2004

[TheBirdMan]

I tend to believe in Maths theory.... Going to take a look at the savings of old 8-player games (both with 8 humans and with 2 humans/6AIs).

[checkMate]

I think there can be large variation in AI behaviour though. And this may tend to imbalance a game when a lot of AI are used. For example, Birdman may remember that in a game where I won against him, the AI were very peaceful with me, but they harrassed Bird the whole game.

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by checkMate
And this may tend to imbalance a game when a lot of AI are used.

what you forget is the difference between systematic and statistical "imbalances".
starting conditions systematically favor the player with the lower seat number. AI behaviour cannot be predicted before the game to favor one or the other player, so it falls under statistical randomness. statistical randomness, however, is a natural part of most games and i personally accept it to be. ruins, barbarian attacks, land quality further away from your starting position, these all neither benefit nor penalize one player systematically, so they have to be considered 'equal' before the game.
of course if you want an all skill based game like chess, you have to eliminate those factors. however, in a luck/skill game like poker these are essential.

[checkMate]

Yes, your right. The starting position (being based on player number) is systematic. The factor I mention is random. However that factor (AI behaviour) will be more pronounced with more AI. Perhaps blackice method is best. He has a third party remove all AI after starting a game. In that case the humans could be 1,3 or 6,8 for a fair game, and with out the AI factor.

However, I think no AI games are a bit boring sometimes.

[Mathemagician]

how does one manipulate a PBEM game once started ? someone said you can use the cheat mode during the first turn. but i couldnt do it. do i have to rename to .dat, open regulary, then cheat mode ? and will that work only during the first turn ? ah well, i guess i just try.

[Dimytes]

There is a no-AI-scenario that kills the AI the first turn. I think I recieved this one from Blackice a few months ago.

©Dimytes 2004

[Mathemagician]

i assume there is no way of combining several scenarios ?

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Mathemagician
how does one manipulate a PBEM game once started ? someone said you can use the cheat mode during the first turn. but i couldnt do it. do i have to rename to .dat, open regulary, then cheat mode ? and will that work only during the first turn ? ah well, i guess i just try.

You must launch the game using the 'Launch editor' button ratehr than the usual 'Launch' button.

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Mathemagician
i assume there is no way of combining several scenarios ?

At least partly, there should be. Certainly it would be easy to add the AI-killing feature to any other scenario. It would require messing around with the files which make them up, though.

[Mathemagician]

i see. any easy way to create a new scenario that simply includes two or more other scenarios in a kind of command file ?

[blackice]

someone said you can use the cheat mode during the first turn.

Interesting to find out who said that, try to remember for us ok Math?

Not that I am aware of no it will not open even in .dat mode. I do know some slic codes work after the game has started BerXpert brought that to our attention many moons ago.
Of course you could just use say all land and rivers map or all hills and mountains map to equalize the start positions. Or as we have done many times get someone else to do the land and balance it for both players.

Ai will generally attack the winning or the losing player or the player not friendly to thier ally. If the AI has made friends with the other player chances are that the other player will suffer continued attacks and a game imbalance takes place. If the AI has better land the player taking the attacks will fall behind fast.

Removing ruins, wonders, and AI with a balanced map make this game as close as you can get to an all skill game.

i assume there is no way of combining several scenarios ?

I would think that a combined scenerio would have to be made as such.

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Mathemagician
i see. any easy way to create a new scenario that simply includes two or more other scenarios in a kind of command file ?

Probably not, no. In the case of the no-AI scenario the only change is to SLIC, so you could justcopy out the content of the scenario.slc file and append it to the corresponding file for the other scenario. The more complicated the scenarios, the more complicated the changes you'd have to make.

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by blackice

someone said you can use the cheat mode during the first turn.

Interesting to find out who said that, try to remember for us ok Math?

'twas I, and I said it again 5 posts ago.

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by J Bytheway

'twas I, and I said it again 5 posts ago.

that was one of the easiest problems i ever had to solve.

[blackice]

J Bytheway ok what you refer to is when setting the game up right? But once the game turn has been played and sent off it no longer works, correct?