design versus coding

[TCO]

I put smilies in...

[TCO]

I agree that Vel is a gentleman. Ummm...I'm just not as evil as you think...

now let's all "be open" and hold hands and sing kumbayah...

[Velociryx]

Oh...I don't think anybody regards you as evil, GP....I would say, if I had to guess, that your comments stem from two possible things (could be wrong here, this is just me musing):

First, you're testing the limits of our policy of openness. See if we get all defensive if things aren't always glowing and positive. If that's been a part of it, I think we passed the test thus far.

And second, because a genuine spirit of openness and collaboration is almost unheard of in this or any other business. Everybody's gotta protect their turf, under the traditional model. It's okay to quietly shop around for ideas, so long as you can make everybody think they were really yours all along, in the end.

But that's not how we do things...it's not what we're about.

Case in point....a minor example, but it's important for illustrative purposes:

'bout two months ago, the team leads (Cathy and Ramses) and I were mailing back and forth about the project, and finding ways of getting timely, accurate information into the hands of everybody involved in the project. Cathy recommended a Candle'Bre newsletter as a vehicle for doing that, and both Ramses and I thought that was perfect! So...I started up a thread and made the announcement to the group as a whole, and got a number of virtual pats on the back for an outstanding idea.

Now...at that point, I could have done the very same thing that happens sooooo often in the "regular" business world. Nobody but Ram and Cathy KNEW it wasn't my idea, and I could have nodded and smiled and accepted the kudos for bein' so darned smart.

But that's not what happened. I told everybody that if they wanted to thank someone, then Cathy was the person they oughta be thanking, cos the idea was hers entirely.

A bit later, I got a number of e-mails on that topic, essentially saying how refreshing it was to work on a project and in an environment where credit was given so freely for ideas that turned out to be wildly popular.

That kind of thinking permeates everything we do...everything we touch. It fosters a great deal of trust and harmony in the work envrionment, and it does amazing things to creativity. Nobody holds anything back....and that's awesome. You don't find that in many (if any) corporate offices. Too much turf protection going on for it to happen.

But of course, it's another thing that sets the group and our methodology apart, and in the business world, when something is unlike the rest of the herd, it is viewed with suspicion at best and outright disdain at worst.

So despite how it might appear, it's not all about holding hands and singing Kumbayah....there's a method to the madness. When people study chaos theory, the first thing they're struck by is the sheer seething randomness of it all.

The second thing they're struck by is the spooky sense of order that stands behind all that randomness....

-=Vel=-

[Chowlett]

Originally posted by Velociryx
When people study chaos theory, the first thing they're struck by is the sheer seething randomness of it all.

The second thing they're struck by is the spooky sense of order that stands behind all that randomness....

-=Vel=-

I'll teach him maths yet!

[Velociryx]

I'm game if you are, Master Chowlett!

-=Vel=-

[moomin]

Originally posted by Velociryx
'bout two months ago, the team leads (Cathy and Ramses) and I were mailing back and forth about the project, and finding ways of getting timely, accurate information into the hands of everybody involved in the project. Cathy recommended a Candle'Bre newsletter as a vehicle for doing that, and both Ramses and I thought that was perfect! So...I started up a thread and made the announcement to the group as a whole, and got a number of virtual pats on the back for an outstanding idea.

Now...at that point, I could have done the very same thing that happens sooooo often in the "regular" business world. Nobody but Ram and Cathy KNEW it wasn't my idea, and I could have nodded and smiled and accepted the kudos for bein' so darned smart.

But that's not what happened. I told everybody that if they wanted to thank someone, then Cathy was the person they oughta be thanking, cos the idea was hers entirely.

A bit later, I got a number of e-mails on that topic, essentially saying how refreshing it was to work on a project and in an environment where credit was given so freely for ideas that turned out to be wildly popular.

While I agree your handling the situation was good, you really shouldn't hold the corporate world to the standards of Dilbert. While corporate politics grow with the size of the company and can get quite ugly, there are lot of good managers who wouldn't imagine taking credits for co-workers ideas, if not out of the goodness of their hearts then simply because they're not crazy enough to take the morale hit.

Where I work, we got an conference system where people not only log their ideas but where the team actually votes on them - we done away with all but one meeting per fortnight in this manner. I have the right to veto, which I've used exactly twice in as many years. Openess and sharing is certainly not lacking in any decent commercial environment. And stealing ideas of stifling creativity is so far from our agenda I wouldn't know to where to begin if somebody suggested we'd do that.

[moomin]

Originally posted by ravagon
Didn't Microprose do something similar though with their CiC and FW expansions having "Best of Net" sections?
Or is this an issue relating to open-source specifically?

It's mostly an OS thing, really. Coming up with a decent commercial license that says "all your work is belong to us" isn't all that difficult... but doing it under general OS rules is a neat trick. And while going OS generates lots of free buzz, doing it wrong generates even more badwill, as Apple is finding out with their crummy Darwin license. It's not so much a legal question as one of not incurring the wrath of the OS zealots.

[Velociryx]

"All your work is belong to us!"

Now THAT was funny!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Well said, Trooper. And I know that there are some good environments out there to work in...I've had the pleasure to work in a handful of them.

I've also had the misfortune to work in that "other type" and, having spent ten years doing contract work, I can sadly report that the latter far, FAR outnumber the former....at least in my own experiences.

I've worked in exactly three places that truly fostered the creative environment...all the rest have been varrying degress of fiefdoms and turf wars...everybody so caught up in protecting their "space" that it was a wonder much of anything got done.

So...while I'm not exactly trying to Dilbertize the whole industry, I've seen an awful lot of examples of that very thing. 's crazy, but it's out there.

-=Vel=-

[moomin]

You gotta stick to the good ends of the industry, is all.

I've worked in an environment with more than 25 co-workers once in my life. For fourteen weeks...

But in my book, a small company or outfit simply has no business being stifling and "turfish". That's, after all, what we got the megacorps for

[Velociryx]

Quite true....most of my contract work HAS been for those aforementioned megacorps, and it's very much like swimming in shark infested waters with a bleeding arm....not a pretty picture...UGH

-=Vel=-

[Urban Ranger]

Maybe GP is trying to get you to think outside of your box? It's always good to have somebody coming from the opposite direction, since he can spot things that you have missed.

Then again, maybe not

[TCO]

Sometimes my points are acerbic. Because (A) I like that kind of teasing, (B) I need to get you to think.

Depending on situation, amount of each rationale may vary.

But at the end, even if I tease you, I like y'all and want you to do well...even think that I may toughen your skins to help you. And that having a tough skin and ability to look at the project (at least occasionaly) in a dispassionate manner can be helpful.

And I sometimes have some real content points.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by GP
I'm just not as evil as you think...

Second time in 2 days you've said that.

I think that in most cases you seem to be trying to apply the lessons learned with both Civ3 and Moo3.
While there may be much to be learned from the mistakes made therein, most of these seem to be of the "The bigger you are the harder you fall" variety, and as such just aren't particularly applicable to Velocigames (as yet anyway - they won't be minnows forever ).


[And I wish you people would stop knocking Dilbert! ]

[TCO]

dp