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  • #61
    I downloaded D7 and D7.1 and I must say that I like what I see.

    There are a number of isues however.
    [list=1][*]In the Cartehage vr. Rome scenario only half of the map is vissble on the "full screen map", so it's rather cumbersom to play, when you have to click on on each tile to se if there is a unit there.[*]there is way to much clicking, when I select a unit and then press move, I have to first klick in the map view, to activate the window, and then place the waypoints.[*]there must be some type of zone of control, I have on several ocations had TFs passing oneanother with very little combat loss. This occurs when I attempt to attack a TF by moving into the tile ocupied by it.[*]It is unrealistic and quite anoying that you can claim a number of tiles by simply passing through them. This is OK as long as there is no (and in some cases very few) inhabitants, but generally you should have to remain some time in an area populated by a different nationality than the invading army. One solution could be to add an occupy/conquer order. The time used to cary out this order should then be calculated based on the atackers strength and the population. A note here is that liberating accupied tretory should be easier. A nice touch would be to make provinces have a chance of revolting if owner is not native.[*]Naval units should not be able to conquer land tiles. Land there yes, but hold forein terrain no. And they should be penalized for fighting while docked/beached.[/list=1]

    I might have some more later, especially on the interface, but this is all for now.
    Visit my CTP-page and get TileEdit and a few other CTP related programs.
    Download and test SpriteEdit development build.

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    • #62
      Thanks for the comments, Martin. Glad to hear you like things in general .

      I basically agree with your criticisms and suggestions. Some of the things you don't like were just kludgey first implementations that we knew we'd have to refine. I don't think we need zoc included for things to work right, but I've been wrong before. I'll put your comments on the todo list. Please go ahead and put any detialed suggestions for fixes/changes in the relevant threads maybe 10 to 30 threads down. (if you can't see all of them make sure you have 'view all threads' set, rather than 'last 10 days' or something similar. You can also find them off the web page.)
      Project Lead for The Clash of Civilizations
      A Unique civ-like game that will feature low micromanagement, great AI, and a Detailed Government model including internal power struggles. Demo 8 available Now! (go to D8 thread at top of forum).
      Check it out at the Clash Web Site and Forum right here at Apolyton!

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      • #63
        In the Cartehage vr. Rome scenario only half of the map is vissble on the "full screen map", so it's rather cumbersom to play, when you have to click on on each tile to se if there is a unit there.
        I know this one. One cumbersome bypass is to open the jar, edit the Carthago.xml scenario file and change the '-' in the map by 'd' (it replaces unreachable squares by desert squares). Only those on the left if the map caused problem for me (i.e. Africa, not the northeast part of the map). Gary didn't reproduce that, though. Mark, do you? I wonder if Gary has left something (a black tile?) out of the zip files or if the bug depends on the virtual machine used.
        Clash of Civilization team member
        (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
        web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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        • #64
          I don't see any problem in Delenda. I marvel that I read Martin's #1 and didn't say "I don't see that". So its really good you commented on it. My guess is it must be virtual-machine dependent, because Delenda works ok when I run it from the jar file on the desktop, which shouldn't have access to any of the other resources I might have. I'm on win98.
          Project Lead for The Clash of Civilizations
          A Unique civ-like game that will feature low micromanagement, great AI, and a Detailed Government model including internal power struggles. Demo 8 available Now! (go to D8 thread at top of forum).
          Check it out at the Clash Web Site and Forum right here at Apolyton!

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          • #65
            I got it both on Win98 and WinXP, but I have two variants of sun's jvm in each case. I think I will just have to debug that one...
            Clash of Civilization team member
            (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
            web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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            • #66
              I just updated my javaWM from sun, and I still have it. Oh by the way I just attached an image of the affected area.


              I have a few more bugs to report
              1. Tech-level is reported with a lot of digits (eg. 2.1000001) This number is not correct as it will stay there untill it increases above 2.2
              2. The change provice menu that pops-up when right-klicking the main map, is not destroyed when after clicking "OK" or "Cancel" and shows up on the alt-tab menu in Windows XP, if the game is active the menu automatically goes to the back, but it is still there, and works fine.


              And a couple of suggestions

              The issue of the #/Turn column. This gives no meaning to the player, if he/she cannot see how much is acumulated (where that applies) and how much is neaded.

              To take an example: (road building)
              At turn 23 I collect 6 in taxes.
              20% costs 1 and yields 1.2/turn.

              Is this 1.2 road-sections per turn or 1.2 stoneslabs, 1.2 buckets of sand? You get my point: what does a road cost? Oh and how much more do I need to complete it?

              The same goes for military units and technology.

              Reinforcement The game needs some form of reinforcement I have the following two suggestions.
              1. Add survivors after battel to other units. (or combining units)
              2. Reinforcement build command. This would either meen that the unit remains in a province or the reinforcement moves to the unit with risk of taking losses on the way.
              Attached Files
              Visit my CTP-page and get TileEdit and a few other CTP related programs.
              Download and test SpriteEdit development build.

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              • #67
                I answered the point about Reinforcements in the Military thread there: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...31#post1526761
                If anyone wants to discuss it, can we do it in that thread?
                And I see the same thing as you on the Delenda scenario. I know what causes the bug (those - in the scen file), but don't understand how it comes to be not displayed. I will investigate.
                Clash of Civilization team member
                (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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                • #68
                  Just a note on task force loading .. if u have ships in a task force, u cannot load or unload units (well u can load one.. ) u shd be able to load the number of units which the ships will hold.. not a biggie, just an observation..

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                  • #69
                    Note on comp speed.. I am in the stone age with a 233Mhz Pent II (no not 3 or 4 ) and 100Meg of mem and a few gig of hd space.. [hell i just got rid of a perfectly functional 8086 with 16k of mem and a 300k hd running a whopping 4.3mhz.. hehe] I can play the 7.1 stuff except for the attilla one.. of course i have to be patient..

                    The attila one is just too much for me.. I can get it set up, but as soon as i start a move, that's about it.. hehe.. I'm not complaining really, just letting u know.. for a prog with no real graphics it is very demanding of the hardware.. i guess i need that new Sun Server..

                    BTW the road cancel deal (right click) has worked for me and it has failed for me.. there are problems with it i am guessing.. just fyi..

                    Also on the Jericho scenerio, I had cases where I would tell a warrior to pick up a population, which it did.. problem is it immediately forgot that it had it and lost it.. population just vanished.. never even got the little wagon/tent/whatever symbol ..

                    This would often be when i was relocating populations, so I probably had several "settlers" .. seemed to be rather random to me tho.. did not spend time to figure out when/why.. just another fyi..

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                    • #70
                      I have had a number of teleportations happening at random in Delenda. What happends is that when a taskforce is split into individual units, all except one of the units ends op at the previously selected tile.

                      The only thing I have been able to figure out is that there has to be more than one TF at both ends.

                      Another thing is that naval combat seems to be nonexsiting after updating to 7.1 or rather naval units just don't fight, and can't be killed.
                      Visit my CTP-page and get TileEdit and a few other CTP related programs.
                      Download and test SpriteEdit development build.

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                      • #71
                        Update I just had the teleportation happening again. Two large TF's Both with non-numerical names and in two different cities. When I split one of the TF's as first action in that turn (I had checked battel reports for both TF's as they had just eradikated defending TFs) all but the unit with the nonnumerical TF-name got teleported to the other city, and the TF that took that city got highlighted. But was not selected properly.
                        Visit my CTP-page and get TileEdit and a few other CTP related programs.
                        Download and test SpriteEdit development build.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Martin the Dane
                          In the Cartehage vr. Rome scenario only half of the map is vissble on the "full screen map", so it's rather cumbersom to play, when you have to click on on each tile to se if there is a unit there.
                          Now that Martin gave the image of what the error is, I have to admit that I do see it afterall. I just never tried moving into it. . . So it appears to be a game bug rather than a VM one! Sorry for any confusion I generated!

                          The issue of the #/Turn column. This gives no meaning to the player, if he/she cannot see how much is acumulated (where that applies) and how much is neaded.

                          To take an example: (road building)
                          At turn 23 I collect 6 in taxes.
                          20% costs 1 and yields 1.2/turn.

                          Is this 1.2 road-sections per turn or 1.2 stoneslabs, 1.2 buckets of sand? You get my point: what does a road cost? Oh and how much more do I need to complete it?
                          The #/Turn amounts are in fractions of a unit for military units. For everything else, they are in the raw units that the economy uses. Those units are arbitrarily sized right now. With the new GUI we will make these more meaningful, and also show the progress so far.

                          Thanks for all the other comments guys!
                          Project Lead for The Clash of Civilizations
                          A Unique civ-like game that will feature low micromanagement, great AI, and a Detailed Government model including internal power struggles. Demo 8 available Now! (go to D8 thread at top of forum).
                          Check it out at the Clash Web Site and Forum right here at Apolyton!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Also on the Jericho scenerio, I had cases where I would tell a warrior to pick up a population, which it did.. problem is it immediately forgot that it had it and lost it.. population just vanished.. never even got the little wagon/tent/whatever symbol ..
                            I sometimes had things looking like that which were more of display bugs than real population loss (though gameplay-wise, it changes nothing, it is still a bug). Was the unit you wanted to add population to part of a TF? Sometimes, when this happens, the wagon doesn't show and the menu from the TF doesn't appear. Tou have to get the unit alone out of the TF to get the wagon and the menu to settle. If you come across the bug again, try that. If that doesn't work, it means there are actually two bugs...

                            Teleporting TFs: I'll try to reproduce that.

                            Incomplete map: I have corrected the code (a break instead of a continue in MapPanel.java), so I am relieved to hear that indeed Mark can reproduce the bug. If some VMs did continue instead of break, we would be in dire trouble...

                            Attila: Yes, this one hardly runs on most computers. I think it is because of the econ because there is hardly anything else and because I can blame someone else .

                            On naval units:
                            Yes, one boat takes one unit. I have some code with capacity of the boats, but it is not used and I should rewrite it and plug it so boats can carry an amount of people. Considering the elephant unit is actually very few people, even though an elephant is big, they shouldn't take as much place on a boat as legions.
                            And yes, there is no naval combat, which makes triremes invincible defenders, which in turn somewhat spoils the game. I am ready to code naval combat if anyone can provide me with a model. If you find this a big problem, I can always code something which we will throw away when a real model comes in (would be limited to trireme/galley fights, as that is totally different tactics from cannon-equipped ships, I also wouldn't take greek fire into account unless someone has ideas). I direct again to the military model thread for further comments.
                            Clash of Civilization team member
                            (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                            web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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                            • #74
                              I have an idea for a temporary fix to the naval units being invincible defenders problem: (I don't realy like it that much myself but it's better than nothing)
                              • Let naval units at sea fight each other as if they were ground units.
                              • Let naval defenders do a retreat from contested beaches without friendly ground troops. (Taking some losses to simulate ships not making it to the safty of sea befor the crew is killed.)
                              • Naval units not carrying ground-units cannot land on oponents teretory
                              Last edited by Martin the Dane; December 12, 2002, 05:05.
                              Visit my CTP-page and get TileEdit and a few other CTP related programs.
                              Download and test SpriteEdit development build.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Ref: the "lost settlers bug"
                                I have moved settlers with both TF and individual units.. in the case I am SURE of the unit was not TF and the population did drop by the added amount (1500 as I recall) .. the unit did not show the tent thingie and when the unit arrived at the new spot it would not bring up the menu entry to "colonize with" .. the population was truly lost.. I'll try to focus on this to reverify at future games and try to isolate the issue more clearly..

                                Ref: Naval Units capture
                                I fooled with this for a bit.. they r not invincible.. as the game is currently coded, you can bring a tryreme intot the port where the enemy is (this was without any defenders which I had already "killed" so I am not sure if it would work if enemy were present).. After u r in the port, simply highlight your navy TF/unit, and use "add to selected TF" and poof, they become your tryremes.. u can ROCK the Rome scenerio as either ROME or CARTHAGE by getting all 5 tryremes transporting troops..

                                Good thing the enemy doesn't use the tryreme.. ROME would have a ***** of a time living at all.. Rome should always lose this game I believe if equal intelligence were applied to both sides and tryreme units were utilized.. this is doubly true if u capture the tryremes that are in Rome itself.. Then add the "capture slaves" thingy that ppl have mentioned and Rome is in a pinch that they can never recover from.. Carthage simply outproduces them and steam-rolls em..

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