Demo 7 Download and Comments

[GabrielGL]

I just recalled a major frustration.. the "lockup" of turn advance.. I would guess that 2 in 3 or maybe 3 in 4 of my attempts to play a scenerio (maybe more often) end up in this mode. The SYMPTOM is that I click the "END TURN" button and get a message that "have not completed the last turn" or somethiing close to that in the lower left corner of the main CLASH window.. once this happens I NEVER get a new turn it seems.. now a question.."Was it locked up anyway and the click just give the message, or did my pressing the button too fast trigger the lockup?" I of course can't tell .. I normally proceed fairly quickly .. for example just now I had it lock up 2x in a row trying the Jericho game .. in this case playing Ugarit.. (but i have had all scenerios lock up playing any player) .. I was on move 52 in this case but have had it lock up anywhere from the 2nd move to the nth move.. While it is in this "lockup" I can still do anything in the game so it is in the "events" thread I am guessing.. I can still pick up or put down "colonies" or reassign task forces, or change "next move" commands, etc.. but the "move in process" status never changes.. it is for practical purposes locked up and the game can procede no further.. I am puzzled that no on else gets this problem given that it happens to me VERY frequently.. no doubt u can guess that this is a major frustration..

Any thoughts on what is going on?

[LDiCesare]

The lockup most often happens because the program crashed somewhere. In most programs, it would just crash, but java allows us not to. There must be an "exception" (error) generated somewhere in the code, which freezes the turn handler. You can get a trace if you run with traces in a console (I think it is explained how to somewhere in this thread- I always have the traces because I run thru java command so I don't know how to get them from the jar). If you are interested in logging the traces and reporting them to us, it would be useful for debugging.

[Martin the Dane]

That's to easy

I just loaded up a couple of games and lo and behold, I was able to capture all the oponents units, as long as I had a unit in the same tile.

How to reproduce:[list=1][*]Get one or more of you units (preferably naval, as they don't fight) into a tile with foreign units.[*]Select one of your own TFs[*]Right-klick on any unit in that tile[*]Now click on either "Assign unit to new TF" or "Assign unit to selected TF"[/list=1]
Woila the unit is now yours.

I also got some more qlues to the teleportation isue. There does not have to be any friendly units at the recieving end. Sometimes the Unit-window is not displaying the units and TFs in the selected Tile (I'm not yet sure excately under what conditions this happends). If this happends assigning any units in the units-window to new TFs will cause them to be teleported to the selected Tile. You can however only do this once as the units-window and the map now displays the same Tile.

[GabrielGL]

Hmmm well i don't know about traces.. . if i can do it on my old pc without bringing it to it's knees I'll be happy to do it.. I have not seen instructions for doing it.. I looked through the generated text files generated during the game and found this in the econ file:

ERROR InfrastructureInfo: InfraType for Specials kapital not found in canBeCompleted

This was in the last group of move things in the last paragraph set in the file .. the item was headed:
-------- Army Supplies for Civ-----------------------
It seemed to be cycling through the civ cities and had done (in order) Ugarit, Ebla and Emar.. Emar is where it stopped.. I have included the full text of that section at the end of this message..

I found no indication of errors in the other files.. the turn indicator showed at the end of log.txt this message:
-----------------------------------------
Running Turn 52, 5745BC
Turn 52, 5745BC complete
-----------------------------------------


TEXT of last set of items in lock up round:

+++++ End economy indicator tests: +++++


----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 3.6326246
militaryPayRate for Ugarit = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 42.275146 / 1.8163123
cost20 = 15.6427
Army Supplies cost to build = 1.0
Army Supplies completion = 1.9966674
Warriors cost to build = 35.0
Warriors completion = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization

----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Ebla = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 11.31541 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization

----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Emar = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 10.071022 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
Road Building cost to build = 1.0
Road Building completion = 0.0
education cost to build = 1.0
education completion = 23.46405
farm kapital cost to build = 1.0
farm kapital completion = 0.782135
production kapital cost to build = 1.0
production kapital completion = 1.56427
resources kapital cost to build = 1.0
resources kapital completion = 1.56427
services kapital cost to build = 1.0
services kapital completion = 2.346405
ERROR InfrastructureInfo: InfraType for Specials kapital not found in canBeCompleted
Specials kapital cost to build = 1.0
Specials kapital completion = 0.0
Combat Tech cost to build = 1.0
Combat Tech completion = 7.82135
Food Tech cost to build = 1.0
Food Tech completion = 7.82135
Manufacturing Tech cost to build = 1.0
Manufacturing Tech completion = 7.82135
Military Tech cost to build = 1.0
Military Tech completion = 7.82135

[GabrielGL]

Hmmm well i just ran it (Jericho file, playing Ugarit).. this time I got to move 44 and it hung again... here is the text file info:

last entry from log.txt
-----------------------------------------
Running Turn 45, 5780BC
Turn 45, 5780BC complete
-----------------------------------------
last from other seemingly uninteresting files:

-----------------------------------------
Running 45

-----------------------------------------
Running 45
Ugarit has moved to [1, 31] broken

error file contents:
java.util.ConcurrentModificationException
at java.util.HashMap$Ha****erator.next(Unknown Source)
at game.economics.PublicSector.iterateThroughOrders(P ublicSector.java:169)
at game.economics.PublicSector.executeCivGovtEconOrde rs(PublicSector.java:157)
at game.economics.PublicSector.executeGovtEconOrders( PublicSector.java:129)
at game.economics.SquareEconomy.executeGovtEconOrders (SquareEconomy.java:494)
at game.economics.ProvEconomy.executeGovtEconOrders(P rovEconomy.java:35)
at game.economics.CivEconomy.executeGovtEconOrders(Ci vEconomy.java:210)
at game.economics.CivEconomy.getSpending(CivEconomy.j ava:67)
at game.ai.PlayerAI.displayEconomicsReport(PlayerAI.j ava:101)
at game.ai.PlayerAI.completeTurn(PlayerAI.java:76)
at game.manager.NextTurn.(NextTurn.java:40)
at game.manager.Turn.run(Turn.java:78)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Last items in the econ file:
+++++ End economy indicator tests: +++++


----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 5.631693
militaryPayRate for Ugarit = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 60.765175 / 2.8158464
cost20 = 8.473736
Army Supplies cost to build = 1.0
Army Supplies completion = 3.09378
Warriors cost to build = 35.0
Warriors completion = 0.0
Road Building cost to build = 1.0
Road Building completion = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization

----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Ebla = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 8.203319 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization

----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Emar = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 14.818601 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
education cost to build = 1.0
education completion = 8.473736
farm kapital cost to build = 1.0
farm kapital completion = 2.118434
production kapital cost to build = 1.0
production kapital completion = 4.236868
resources kapital cost to build = 1.0
resources kapital completion = 4.236868
services kapital cost to build = 1.0
services kapital completion = 6.3553023
ERROR InfrastructureInfo: InfraType for Specials kapital not found in canBeCompleted
Specials kapital cost to build = 1.0
Specials kapital completion = 0.0
Combat Tech cost to build = 1.0
Combat Tech completion = 0.0
Food Tech cost to build = 1.0
Food Tech completion = 0.0
Manufacturing Tech cost to build = 1.0
Manufacturing Tech completion = 0.0
Military Tech cost to build = 1.0
Military Tech completion = 0.0

I also have the bmp files from the text screens also showing the map and army positions and the econ setting/calc's at the time of the hang.. if u want em i'll email it to you..

[Mark_Everson]

Hi All:

The error file is the one that's the big thing for finding out what's wrong, although the other log files will sometimes help too. I think Gary must have set it up that error output is the default, since you see an error file. If you don't get an error file when the program bombs, you can do it the way it says on the download page:

ATTENTION:If you follow these instructions and the the program "bombs", please try the following:
a. Create a directory called ClashDemo on C:\
b. Copy the ClashD7.jar file from your desktop into the new ClashDemo directory.
c. Extract that batch file in the zip to the new ClashDemo directory.
d. Run the batch file (double-click the file named "Run_D7.bat")
e. If it works, great. If not, please send Mark Everson the error message from the DOS window.

error file contents:
java.util.ConcurrentModificationException
at java.util.HashMap$Ha****erator.next(Unknown Source)
at game.economics.PublicSector.iterateThroughOrders(P ublicSector.java:169)

It looks like the error this time is my fault, in the Econ code. I have seen that one before, or at least something similar, and thought I had it fixed. I'll try to fix it this weekend, though I've got a lot going on so I can't give a guarantee!

[Mark_Everson]

BTW, treating naval combat in a similar fashion to land combat is fine by me. We could obvioulsy make it very complicated, but starting simple is what I think is best anyway. Plus its good not to piss off the playtesters

The two types of combat should interact in some ways, like carried troops being able to fight in some circumstances, as they did in the naval engagements of the Punic Wars. Another example is to cover for instance the combat effectiveness that naval mobility can give a land battle. I'm with Laurent. . . Why don't we start up a discussion in the Mil thread (or maybe start a Naval combat thread) on a simple starting model to use. Martin's looks like a decent start to me, but we need a few more details.

[GabrielGL]

UPDATE: Lost settlers

followup on the "settler lost civ's" issue.. I found out today a problem that may be related.. i picked up civs with a warrior (Jericho).. there were not many warriors so I noticed that another warrior got the "tent".. and !! he had the civs too...!! this may be like the "joins remote task force" issue.. this may be what happened before when i reported the "failure" to pick up civs but lost the population.. in that scenerio it is possible another warrior had them.. I did not notice so this may be it..

[GabrielGL]

Comment on AI..
The AI needs to be MUCH MORE AGRESSIVE on keeping it's territory.. there is no way they should allow free taking of their territory.. or at the very least they must capture it back when u leave.. I believe now that I can win the Jericho scene as any player with almost never a loss.. I need to verify this.. (if the darn thing will let me get thru without the lockup ) This and the Rome/Carthage scenerios may be great ones to sharpen the AI.. they are substantive enuf not to be boring , but simple enuf that u don't get lost in a lot of detail..

[GabrielGL]

MOre feedback .. hehe

The econ units don't add up.. this is persistent over all times.. .for example it says that there are 22 econ generated per turn.. in reality it shows a gain of maybe 10 or 12 in treasury after the turn..

[GabrielGL]

Another note.. .I CAN"T TURN OFF WARRIOR generation on the Jericho scenerio.. I have had it set to 0 forever but still warriors spit out once in a while.. dunno what the prob is..

[GabrielGL]

I can also confirm that RIGHT CLICK doesn't cancel unbuilt road orders when u use it.. many times i have tried it.. it worked once.. hehe

[Mark_Everson]

Hey Gabriel:

Originally posted by GabrielGL
Comment on AI..
The AI needs to be MUCH MORE AGRESSIVE on keeping it's territory.. there is no way they should allow free taking of their territory.. or at the very least they must capture it back when u leave..

Yeah, we know the current AI has some serious defects. You can actually change the things you rightly say are problems in the xml scenario file. There are parameters that give likelihood to attack foreign cities vs foreign squares that aren't cities. I guess in Jericho its all city an no percentage for plain squares. If you want to put real effort into it, I can get you the info needed to do so.

We haven't put a lot of work into fine-tuning this stuff since it is only placeholder AI until the real AI gets implemented. If you check down the threads, you'll find the AI thread, and can see what we have planned long-term.

The econ units don't add up.. this is persistent over all times.. .for example it says that there are 22 econ generated per turn.. in reality it shows a gain of maybe 10 or 12 in treasury after the turn..

Are you sure you aren't missing something like army maintenance costs? What specific part of the game are you getting the mismatch in? If its present in startup on any scenario, let me know which one, and I'll look into it.

I CAN"T TURN OFF WARRIOR generation on the Jericho scenerio.. I have had it set to 0 forever but still warriors spit out once in a while.. dunno what the prob is..

I don't know about this one. May be a bug, or just held-over orders in one square somewhere that you put in and forgot about. . .

can also confirm that RIGHT CLICK doesn't cancel unbuilt road orders when u use it.. many times i have tried it.. it worked once.. hehe

Well, it's worked every time I've tried it. Can you give a specific set of actions under which it doesn't work? Maybe the wrong part of the gui has the focus?

[GabrielGL]

AI.. No problem... just was for your info.. if already known is fine... how do I edit an xml file (ie what tool)?

wrt econ sums.. I take the value at the top of the econ orders.. it changes as i change orders so I assumed it was ok.. the maint. value is there at all times and is the program entered value.. I don't try to edit that number.. the number I compare it to is the "end of turn" value before and after the move.. seems the value before plus the value at the top of the econ orders should be the value at the next "end of turn".. maybe I am misunderstanding what these numbers are..

wrt warrrior orders.. it was on Jericho.. I had cut off the warrior build (set to 0).. it built at least 2 warriors after that.. I did not ever give a square or province a build order.. maybe the game does and it keeps giving the build some min money until the build is complete. It happens almost everytime I play it so I can reproduce it easily..

Perhaps I am doing the road deal wrong.. the situation is always the same.. my pc lags a bit so I'll be building roads and make an error when the click doesn't register in the correct square.. when the wrong segment (blue line) appears, I immediately try the right click.. what specific click process should I use? The first time I tried it it worked.. maybe I was just by accident in the right place.. It's never worked for me since.. do I need to click a certain square? I may be just dense here..

Did u figure out a fix for the move hangs?

[Martin the Dane]

An update on the taleprotation/disapearance issue:

I noticed that when clicking on a combat event in the eventwindow the focus in the main map window shifts to the combat-location, while the unit window remains on the tile where the curently selected TF is. When rightclicking on a unit in the unit window the popup menu might display, if so, unexpected things will happen if a menuitem is selected.

I have had units disapearing and units being teleported.