Planning for Demos 7 & 8

[axi]

There will be only one zip file per game. It will contain the original scenario in an internal file. Each incremental save will be another internal file. So to send the game to someone else you send just the zip file.

Actually this system uses less files than other systems, one per game rather than one per save.

If this file isn't HUGE, then it's OK, you're right. Such a savegame must be less than 1MB large, to be functional.

[Gary Thomas]

I want to echo Axi's question about swapping files. If you somehow delete the save file, will you be able to save it and have the same functionality? (save as).
You will miss the replay, since we won't keep all the history in-memory. Now, you don't have to delete files, but you can swap them, make save as, copy and move them, and eventually screw up the final replay.

Do I understand that you want to cover the bizarre situation where you delete the save file while you are playing the game and want to use the game to restore the save file? I would take the view that deleting the save file is deleting the save file and you get what one would expect - no saved game. It is legitimate for a game designer to have some of the data needed for the game, but not immediately needed, residing in a file. Deleting that file would destroy that particular game. The save file would come under that category. Delete it ONLY when you are completely finished with the game.

If this file isn't HUGE, then it's OK, you're right. Such a savegame must be less than 1MB large, to be functional.

Remember there is one file per game. Civ 3 save files are around 2Mb PER SAVE, so I guess they are not functional.

Cheers

[axi]

Civ 3 save files are around 2Mb PER SAVE

I don't have civ3. If this is so, then they must have a ton of new stuff in, since the civ2 saves were no more than 187 kb each.

So much for swapping savegames... We Europeans are mostly still using 56k modems you know...

[Gary Thomas]

Gee, that makes my 33k modem look sick.

I was wrong about 2Mb for Civ3. It was too early in the game when I said that - 3Mb looks closer now.

I have to get out and clear out all the saved files every 50 moves or so, or the thing just freezes with a no room to save message.

Cheers

[Mark_Everson]

Update on D7

Hi All:

The current plan is to have Demo 7 ready maybe in the first week of March. Of course it may slip from that due to life, the universe and everything. Most of items 1-7 in the thread at the post's top should be in there pending unforseen problems. D7 should be significantly more fun than D6, although we obviously still have a ways to go.

We are now working on getting a version that is suitable for releasing advanced versions to a limited number of people. Stian can use it for swapping in tiles on the fly in a much more efficient way than before, so we can determine the final D7 release tileset. Axi will be able to use it to do some initial testing in advance of the release. Chris can write the D7 manual using it. I am going to try and get that out to them by the end of the weekend to just get them set up.

-Mark

[Gary Thomas]

We are now working on getting a version that is suitable for releasing advanced versions to a limited number of people.

Speak for yourself, some of us are working on a version that will compile. Then, in a dreamy distant time, will run!

Cheers

[Gary Thomas]

I thought an update on Demo 7 is about due.

The xml system is now working completely. This was the biggie. As a result the download is quite a bit smaller.

The government/social model is in the throes of being written, but doesn't actually do anything, though the ruler preferences screen now works.

The immediate "to do" items I have is to make the settler unit work, and to code population diffusion, with some sort of city generator, and to type in the xml data fo rthe scenario.

We will also need icons for resources to show on the map, and some sort of implementation of this.

At that point we will be able to release Demo 7. I don't think the fact that the social model is incomplete will affect D7. Certainly the lack of AI will not, there being only one civilization involved.

Have I missed anything out?

Cheers

[Mark_Everson]

Hey Gary:

Sounds good to me! As soon as there is enough working and novel stuff that is not too buggy it needs to go to the tutorial-writers, whoever they may be. It was supposed to be Chris W. but he has been rather scarce, so I don't know if we can count on him. I've emailed him to get his take on what his status is.

I will try to make some econ GUI modifications to make things easier to pick up for the players. Or if I'm lucky the GUI guys might be able to do something for it. We need a bit of discussion so we get something that will fit current and near-future needs. That said the econ GUI isn't a showstopper if I fail to deliver...

[Gary Thomas]

Maybe we could let the South American Team have a go at a first cut for the new economics gui for D7?

Cheers

[Gary Thomas]

Aaaaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh!

I moved my settler unit, and the program immediately announced that I was victorious, on the grounds that there were no other civilizations left!

We need different victory conditions!

Cheers

[Mark_Everson]

Hey Gary, at least you didn't spend an hour looking for a bug caused by accidentally making a variable static! That blew a good chunk of my evening.

The victory condition I suggested way back was to reach X total population. 300k was the number I picked... Have you got a VictoryCondition class? If not, sounds like its time for one that we can switch amongst a bunch of things TBD.

[Gary Thomas]

Yes, I had decided to to just that. I will get onto it.

Cheers

[Gary Thomas]

The new victory condition system is now working. We have, so far, only extermination and population conditions.

Now if the damned settler would only settle when I tell it to...

Cheers

[Gary Thomas]

I would like some indication of exactly what is expected from Demo 7. At present we have:

A new scenario with:

1. A settler unit, which can settle a square.

2. A population which must be achieved.

3. A map which can be explored.

4. The settler is part of a task force with a horde unit as well. On settling, the settler unit vanishes, leaving the horde.

What I know to be required:

1. A system of population diffusion.

The problem with this is that it is hardly a game. If you do nothing but click end turn, eventually the population will reach the level required.

Big deal.

What else do we need to make it, if not a game, at least a learning experience?

Perhaps some sort of resource location and development?

Cheers

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by Gary Thomas
The problem with this is that it is hardly a game. If you do nothing but click end turn, eventually the population will reach the level required.

Big deal.

What else do we need to make it, if not a game, at least a learning experience?

Perhaps some sort of resource location and development?

Hi Gary:

Yeah, we could have something like produce 20 units of gold per turn. But again if the population diffuses, the people will invest in gold production all by themselves, and you get a win by sitting there.

I have to admit that I had envisioned the early Dawn scenario you're talking about as mosly a tutorial that wouldn't get very gamelike until step 2 (As in the Reworking thread) where we introduce barbs and tech.

We could also throw in some barbs ahead of schedule. In effect do part of step 2. This would mean the player would need to build military and some roads.

I thought the plan was to have the intro demo thing to help players over the learning curve everyone whines about because they can't take 15 min. to look over the manual. (And I admit the econ interface especially ain't very self-explanatory.) But the Game in demo 7, after we restructured our approach in the Reworking thread, was still supposed to be something like the old Delenda scenario. At least that was what I thought. If we don't have something like that, we will give the appearance that we are going Backwards in features.

I can brainstorm ideas, but first I'd like to see where you're coming from in regard to my comments above.

BTW there was lots of discussion in Reworking our Demo Approach from people that thought the first scenario was too simple and un-gamelike. They had a variety of suggestions, some of which are more practical at this early stage than others. You should give it a read again, and see if anything appeals.