Love and War Turn Tracking thread

[Flubber]

Oh and I didn't see a full ruleset in my admittedly quick scan of the thread other than that the EG/CBA disabled and

no chopper attacks on bases
no reverse engineering from the probe team chassis
no communication prior to acquiring commlink

Have other rules been addressed like

the "stockpile" bug or the requirement to declare vendetta on a treatymate if you perform a hostile probe act and get the popup on your turn?

There are a few more-- most of which I knew the answer in 95% of my old PBEMs but since rulesets can vary a bit I like to get things know and stated

[Senethro]

No stockpile, do whatever you want on probing?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Senethro
No stockpile, do whatever you want on probing?

Stockpile I can go either way on but on probing I think its pretty set that you must declare vendetta if you probe a treaty-mate unless you have a prior agreement-- There is a game bug that gives the prober the OPTION to declare vendetta while a properly functioning game should leave it to the probee's turn-- Its not a big deal but if A steals a tech from B, its shouldn't be B that gets the reputation hit with the AI if they (quite understandably) want to end the treaty or pact

[Flubber]

Here is a sample full ruleset copied from the alien waterworld game. You can choose watever rules you want but these are just some of the issues that should be thought about before they arise. Many are obvious bugs but others like when you can upgrade have a big impact on gameplay

Sorry to seem so pushy but if you don't set this stuff out, you can be playing a unfair game without anyone knowing it. Stockpile is a good example. Unless I know there is a rule against it, I will always and routinely use it . If everyone else isn't, the cash advantage is obvious

Originally posted by Flubber

Suggested play rules (the Forum Wars set)

? Communications - none till contact, obtain commlink, or build EG
? Total freedom in Design Workshop (upgrades anytime, during turn or on-field,
? Retro-engineering - OK, except for using the probe rover chassis before discovering Doc. Mobility
? SE switches "quickies" forbidden - (obviously you can experiment to see what effect various SE choices have, but cannot change, play moves, then change back in the same turn)
? Council notification - immediate broadcast to all players (Post in the thread and e-mail to all immediately by player who has called elections, citing candidates and votes. After each player's turn, post in the thread the running totals)
? Stockpiling in Qs anytime - OK
? Crawlers Upgrade anytime - OK
? Probe actions: Must choose vendetta option when probing other players, rebuke if a pactmate (OK to probe teammate at any time)
? Using the AI - Cannot use the AI to bribe on council votes nor to demand withdrawal of units
? Cannot use the right click feature for multiple drop moves to extend range (ie limited to 8 tiles unless owning the Space Elevator SP)
? Cannot use the 'set waypoint' feature for automatic worm hunting/lifecycle enhancements
? Must 'Accept' or 'Decline' an offered Pact or Treaty that the other player has indicated 'Accepted' before exiting the diplo box and playing the turn (i.e. no accepting pending treaties/pacts *after* declaring vendetta in the same turn )
? Cannot use the F4 feature (or the bases feature of the F2 screen) to change an infiltrated faction's workers to specialists

[Flubber]

So is the turn with cata/me ? The last send message I see is 2108 to cataphract and I didn't know if he played that one

[Senethro]

My opinion is...

Originally posted by Flubber
Communications - none till contact, obtain commlink, or build EG
? Design Workshop - mass upgrades at end of turn only.
? Retro-engineering - No making rovers with Plan Nets, only exact copies of probed units permitted.
? SE switches "quickies" forbidden - I'm not sure its even possible to regulate this. I'm not bothered.
? Council notification - immediate broadcast to all players (Post in the thread and e-mail to all immediately by player who has called elections, citing candidates and votes. After each player's turn, post in the thread the running totals)
? Stockpiling in Qs anytime - as in stockpile bug? no
? Crawlers Upgrade anytime - Nope.
? Probe actions: Do whatever you want. Be secret or start a war.
? Using the AI - Cannot use the AI to bribe on council votes nor to demand withdrawal of units
? Cannot use the right click feature for multiple drop moves to extend range (is this even still in the game?)
? Cannot use the 'set waypoint' feature for automatic worm hunting/lifecycle enhancements
? Must 'Accept' or 'Decline' an offered Pact or Treaty that the other player has indicated 'Accepted' before exiting the diplo box and playing the turn (i.e. no accepting pending treaties/pacts *after* declaring vendetta in the same turn )
? Cannot use the F4 feature (or the bases feature of the F2 screen) to change an infiltrated faction's workers to specialists

[Flubber]

I'm a replacement so I'll go with whatever you 3 decide but I just want to know the rules

Two comments


1. SE quickies has always been forbidden in every game I played-- There is no way to easily police this so it must be done on trust -- If they are allowed thats fine-- I'll just have to make a notr to remind myself

2. The probing a pactmate/treatymate I think should clearly be declare vendetta -- It is a game bug that the pop up comes to the player that performed the probe action instead of the victim. It seems wrong that the villian gets a choice that in SP is given to the "victim"

[Fosse]

We agreed to "standard CGN rules" when we set this up, plus no choppers hitting bases plus no co-op victory.

If it's not covered in one of those then it is not in this one.

When you say crawler upgrades at any time are you trying to avoid SP insta-building? I haven't seen that one before, and I'm for allowing crawler upgrades at any time.

I'm for leaving the probe rule as standard. If you want to probe and get caught, and don't want the vendetta, offer accepted peace that turn and hope the other guy agrees.

[Senethro]

Meh, my memory must be short if I forgot we agreed on a ruleset.

Fosse, you don't know what you're letting loose if you allow upgraded crawlers...

As regards probes, lets go with the standard then, but I've always felt that the burden should be on the defending player to keep their information networks safe and to declare vendetta when a probe team is located, rather than when the attacking player successfully infiltrates without being detected.

[Flubber]

Good- I figured there must be agreed rules

So its these-- I have played with that set many times

Thanks

Restrictions - general gameplay:
- A player may not restart a turn without good reason. The player should specify the reason in the game thread if he was not able to avoid reloading the turn. (Obviously, if a player has suffered some sort of crash during a turn, such a reload is unavoidable)

- A player is not permitted to establish contact with another faction prior to having met them in-game.

- If a player performs a probe team action other than to infiltrate against another player with whom (s)he is in a truce, treaty or pact, they must inform the probed player what it was they did and what they stole/sabotaged. They must also choose the 'declare vendetta/cancel pact' option when they perform the action.

- A player is not permitted to make more than one social engineering change per line, per turn. For instance, one is not permitted to start the turn in wealth, switch to power mid-turn for the extra disbanded minerals, and then switch back to wealth that same turn, getting the refund.

- A player is not permitted to use the 'demand withdrawal' feature against another player, leaving the AI the decision of whether to withdraw or not.

- A player may not accept a bribe from another player's AI during council sessions.

- A player may not perform multiple airdrops in a single turn with the same unit using the right-click menu.

- A player may not use the F4 screen when infiltrated to change an opponent's workers to specialists.

Contentious issues

- A player may not insert stockpile energy into the build queue after the production of a military unit. Due to a bug in the game, should you put stockpile energy into the queue, you will get the benefit of the extra energy on the same turn as production of your military unit.

- If a player declares vendetta upon another player, either directly or indirectly, they must not accept a pending diplomatic agreement between the two factions in the same turn.

- A player may not upgrade a particular type of unit using the design workshop, and then attack with that unit in the same turn.

- A player may not make air drops using the right click "air drop to" function, when it is not possible to do so with the "i" button, ie. after already having moved or made a drop.

[Flubber]

Oh and I have the turn and will play tonight when I get home

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Senethro

As regards probes, lets go with the standard then, but I've always felt that the burden should be on the defending player to keep their information networks safe and to declare vendetta when a probe team is located, rather than when the attacking player successfully infiltrates without being detected.

Aha and that is where the bug is . . . its does not appear possible to have an "undetected "probe action in a PBEM. Every probe action I have undertaken against a friendly human controlled faction, you get the pop up .

The bug to me is two fold

1. you never seem to succeed (ie do the action undetected) like you can in SP

2. The pop-up comes to the wrong player-- Again think of SP when you get the popup that a friendly AI probed you.

In a game with no AI, this bug should be irrelevant since in-game rep doesn't matter. With AI, any rep hit should go to the prober that got caught.

[Fosse]

Oh, I know how horrible crawler upgrades can be... and it scares me.

I've just never been aware of it being explicitly outlawed.

I'm all for it though if we like. I hope we're at least a few turns away from I:Auto and this rule being prevelent.

[Senethro]

The Spartan Federation begs to differ on that point.

[Flubber]

2108 to fosse

Interesting to take over for another even at this early stage-- The empire is already markedly different than I would have played